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[Capntastic]

You're getting mad people are making fun of you for throwing a fit that your webcomic was delayed in a show of solidarity against SOPA, and calling them "alarmist fucks" because they think you're acting self-centered, regardless of their stance on SOPA. 

[G-Flex]

By the way its generally considered drastic to cut off your service entirely.

It is. Wikipedia also hasn't done that; they specifically implemented the blackout in such a way that it's trivial to bypass it. Also, the loss of a webcomic for one day is hardly "drastic" at all.

Also I wont be mailing my senator over the loss of a webcomic page, I will be thinking the webcomic author is an idiot.

You'll also apparently spark a discussion about the bills in question because of it. Congratulations, you just accidentally validated their actions.

[QuakeIV]

If wikipedia wanted people easily bypassing their block they would have mentioned it.  Otherwise its not easy, its just something people who know how to use computers can do.  That was stupid of me.

My whole damn argument is that what they are doing is preposterous.  This is specifically combating their desire to mail congressmen who wont even have a chance to consider the bill most likely.

Also, why on earth would you use the word 'solidarity' when they are fighting something they don't even seem to understand?  The bills are not yet a threat and yet they take such actions.

Also people have little trouble calling other people idiots, its not that shocking that I would 'throw a fit' over something as stupid as what I'm seeing.

[Capntastic]

"Why would anyone make a big stink over censorship?  It's not like the bill getting passed is a sure thing!"

Your whole argument is predicated on the concept that it might not pass on its own merit, so there's no reason for the American public (and beyond) to indicate how strongly against it they are.  Do you think all political activism is a waste of time or something?

[G-Flex]

If wikipedia wanted people easily bypassing their block they would have mentioned it.

They did. You could at least go look yourself before making assertions like this.
From the "Learn More" link:

Is it still possible to access Wikipedia in any way?

    Yes. During the blackout, Wikipedia is accessible on mobile devices and smart phones. You can also view Wikipedia normally by disabling JavaScript in your browser, as explained on this Technical FAQ page. Our purpose here isn't to make it completely impossible for people to read Wikipedia, and it's okay for you to circumvent the blackout. We just want to make sure you see our message.

Also, why on earth would you use the word 'solidarity' when they are fighting something they don't even seem to understand?  The bills are not yet a threat and yet they take such actions.

So... you'd rather the protesting wait until it's more of a threat? Why exactly would that be a good idea?

[QuakeIV]

Because the bill that has any good chance of being considered isn't at all dangerous to wikipedia.

Also G-Flex I admit that was stupid to say.

Anyhow CaptnTastic, SOPA is so far away from actually happening that they should probably wait to take action until its even on the horizon.  My argument is both predicated on the fact that one bill hasn't even passed committee (people I cant influence) and the other is only going to hurt sites like the pirates bay.  Its hardly censorship to get rid of sites dedicated to illegal activity.

[Stargrasper]

Okay, G-Flex, he did cross that out and acknowledge the fallacy in an edit six minutes before your post.

Also, why on earth would you use the word 'solidarity' when they are fighting something they don't even seem to understand?  The bills are not yet a threat and yet they take such actions.

I do have to agree that this statement is ridiculous.  If you know something has potential to be a critical threat, you preempt it.

Anyhow CaptnTastic, SOPA is so far away from actually happening that they should probably wait to take action until its even on the horizon.  My argument is both predicated on the fact that one bill hasn't even passed committee (people I cant influence) and the other is only going to hurt sites like the pirates bay.  Its hardly censorship to get rid of sites dedicated to illegal activity.

I believe your argument isn't valid.  You can influence these people by showing strong opinion.  They're harder to reach, but they'll listen if enough people start talking.  The other...how exactly is 'dedicated to illegal activity' defined?

[[5th]Lupin]

I've got some bad news for anyone that still thinks contacting your local representative does anything these days.

Now maybe if we were "contacting" our representatives with huge wads of thousand dollar bills they would listen. But other wise they literally could not care less about what the serf-class has to say about things. After all, how many people do you think have wrote about, petitioned, and actively protested the hundreds of draconian laws that have been passed in the last couple of decades? How many of them have been repealed? I'm willing to bet not a heck of a lot, if any. Look at the patriot act. Everyone that doesn't have their head in a hole is opposed to it, and yet it remains.

Unless you're willing to shell out a couple hundred grand and do some favors for your "representative" (like the corporations that sponsored this bill) absolutely nothing will be accomplished. This is how the political system works these days.

I'm sure I'll get about a hundred angry messages about this, but for the sake of not getting into a debate I'm not checking this thread again.

[QuakeIV]

I'm not sure its wroth discussing the effectiveness of yelling at people you voted for.  Therefore I excuse myself from such.

Anyhow, to clarify;  I think its stupid that wikipedia is taking such drastic action against a bill that is so far away from being considered.  Its the weight of the reaction that I am disputing.  I would be fine with an 'oppose this bill!' banner.  I don't dig the whole javascript popup.  That sort of thing comes when it gets further into the system.  When its justified.

I'm willing to concede that justification is subjective however this seems like an overreaction.


Also committee is in large part designed to avoid outside influence.  They will be pretty tough to influence.

Finally;

Spoiler: big (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

(a) Commencement of an Action-


    (1) IN PERSONAM- The Attorney General may commence an in personam action against--


        (A) a registrant of a nondomestic domain name used by an Internet site dedicated to infringing activities; or


        (B) an owner or operator of an Internet site dedicated to infringing activities accessed through a nondomestic domain name.
e: also;

Code: [Select]

(b) Orders of the Court-


    (1) IN GENERAL- On application of the Attorney General following the commencement
of an action under this section, the court may issue a temporary restraining order, a
preliminary injunction, or an injunction, in accordance with rule 65 of the Federal Rules of
Civil Procedure, against the nondomestic domain name used by an Internet site dedicated
to infringing activities, or against a registrant of such domain name, or the owner or
operator of such Internet site dedicated to infringing activities, to cease and desist from
undertaking any further activity as an Internet site dedicated to infringing activities, if--


        (A) the domain name is used within the United States to access such Internet site; and


        (B) the Internet site--


            (i) conducts business directed to residents of the United States; and


            (ii) harms holders of United States intellectual property rights.
and;

Code: [Select]

(a) Commencement of an Action-


    (1) IN PERSONAM- A qualifying plaintiff may commence an in personam action against--


        (A) a registrant of a domain name used by an Internet site dedicated to infringing activities; or


        (B) an owner or operator of an Internet site dedicated to infringing activities accessed through a domain name.

e: much manual reformatting later

[kaenneth]

Read up on Steve Jackson Games, Inc. v. United States Secret Service.

A company developing a pen and paper RPG got their computers seized because that game included 'hacking'.

Now think about Liberal Crime Squad, babies being used as human shields, and nude dwarf children.

The most terrifing words in any language "I'm here to help, I'm from the government."

[Capntastic]

I put forth that a unified blackout against a cause many people see as abhorrent is justified even if the legislation in question isn't 'that close to being passed'.  You'd have to do some amazing stuff to convince me that fighting against censorship in that way is not justified.

[QuakeIV]

Well it isn't really censorship.  Other than that we get into opinion and I am willing to grant you the stance of 'what wikipedia is doing is fine' without yelling at you.

also;
I'm too tired for more than one Kaenneth, contact me later.  Then we'll see.

[Capntastic]

Okay so it is justified, got it.

[QuakeIV]

I'm not sure how to read that.  I concede though that its a matter of opinion whether or not wikipedias actions are justified.  I am admitting that any discussion on that would be futile and pointless.

[Stargrasper]

We are now officially discussing two completely different things.

QuakeIV actually does have a valid point.  He's disagreeing with the method by which the protest is taking place.

Capntastic et al also have a valid point.  They're refuting fallacies in QuakeIV's earlier, seemingly now abandoned, arguments.  I think.

QuakeIV seems to have acknowledged issues with his arguments, so I think further discussion regarding that is irresponsible unless his current position can be clarified.  Further discussion regarding SOPA/PIPA and their repercussions is valid if it can be done in a respectful and informative manner.

This thread was getting a bit out of hand.  We should try to watch ourselves.