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[Pad]

Hello !

Even though I play until 40d and feel at ease with the game commands, I still feel quite like a noob since I never managed to build a fort I was really proud of (I usually abandon around year 3-5 out of boredom or on the contrary way too much FUN), so I just thought I might as well stop being a passive reader here and register and ask for help.

I found a really nice embark site, and I'd like to exploit the full potential of it. It has a 6z-level waterfall, flux, iron, lignite, clay, almost 20k kaolinite, fire clay, sand, and other metals. Magma is 40z under the surface but I don't mind having the forges far below ground.

(For those interested: )

Worldgen :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:PADZ WATERFALL]
   [SEED:1424224667]
   [HISTORY_SEED:1541505225]
   [NAME_SEED:982010362]
   [CREATURE_SEED:1412454156]
   [DIM:129:129]
   [EMBARK_POINTS:1274]
   [END_YEAR:332]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:200:90]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
   [ELEVATION:1:400:401:401]
   [RAINFALL:0:100:200:200]
   [TEMPERATURE:50:60:200:200]
   [DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200]
   [SAVAGERY:0:60:200:200]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [MINERAL_SCARCITY:500]
   [MEGABEAST_CAP:9]
   [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:18]
   [TITAN_NUMBER:4]
   [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:120:0:1000000]
   [DEMON_NUMBER:14]
   [NIGHT_CREATURE_NUMBER:28]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:0]
   [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
   [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:75]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:260:1:1]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:260:1:1]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:1040:3:3]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:2080:2:2]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:2080:1:1]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:2080:3:3]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:2080:3:3]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
   [RIVER_MINS:300:250]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:3750]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:8]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:5]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:3]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
   [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:12]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:15]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
   [SITE_CAP:520]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
   [RAIN_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:2080:4160:0]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]

Embark :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Screenshots :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Top :


Bottom :

And now, here are the questions !

1) I never seemed to be able to really use the military aspect of the game in DF2010, so what kind of defensive setup would you recommend me to use ? (Taking trapavoid creatures into account)

2) I also need ideas/advices on pretty and dwarwish things to do with this map... Perhaps a fort spreading by the two sides of the canyon, connected with bridges crossing it ? Do you have something better and/or complementary to propose ?

3) Concerning pressure and waterfalls : the lower river goes south to north ; if I do tap it southern of the waterfall, will it be pressurized or not ?

4) I usually embark with 5 seeds of each crop and run 4 of them in a 3x3 farm plot (never made it to the point where I have use for dye yet) but each fort I made was overstocked with booze and meals in 1 or 2 years... (not even counting hundreds of seeds). Even though meals are a great trading item, how much could I reduce the size of my plots without starving my dwarves ?

5) I HATE having too many migrants too soon, but still end up with a 50+ population fort in 2 years. Is it possible to attract less of them ? How ? (by creating much less wealth ?) I'd like to say that killing them is not an option, I like it when my deceased dwarves screen is reduced to the minimum.

6) Will grates placed on the side of the river prevent my fisherdwarves from being interrupted by carps/longnoses/etc. ? (of course with fishing areas so that they don't go and fish on the grates)

I'm pretty sure I forgot some other questions, but that will be a good start. Thank you for helping me.

P.S. : Please excuse my approximative english : despite my efforts, it is not my mother tongue.

[Lord Dullard]

Magma is 40z under the surface but I don't mind having the forges far below ground.

Pump your magma up to the surface (or near it), DON'T build your forges way down there. It'll sink the productivity of your smithing industry to a crawl.

Nice embark.

I'll leave others to answer your questions, but let that be my tip to you for maximizing the use of your map.

[612DwarfAvenue]

Needs more gigantic obsidian Dwarf statues with pressurized magma ready to shoot out from their eyes to burn any enemies down on the ground.

[Pad]

Well I'm not used to pump stacks, but I guess it is the right time to begin using them, thanks for the tip.

[nahkh]

Welcome to the forums, Pad!
And don't worry about the English, yours is easy enough to understand.

That's a nice location you got there, I must say. I'll have to get me some of that.

On to the questions:

1) Ah, military. The backbone of any fortress. A few tips comes to mind.
 - Make sure you can lock down your fortress.
 - Make sure your civilians aren't wandering the surface on their spare time.
 - Since you have iron, get your military fully equipped in iron or steel plate as soon as possible.
 - I've never been able to get marksdwarves to work right. I seem to recall hearing that they're bugged, so stick with melee dwarves. That means you can forget fortifications for now.
 - Since the training system has been revamped, it can take forever for your military to gain any kind of skill, especially if you don't have great teachers. Remedy this either by embarking with someone with teaching skills and decent fighting skills, or by building a danger room for your dwarves to practice in.
 - Oh and a danger room is basically a room filled with vertical spike traps connected to a single lever. USE ONLY WOODEN PRACTICE SPEARS in the traps, and then set the lever to repeat. Any dwarf in the room will be hit with wooden spears over and over again, leveling them up quickly. Some regard this as cheese but hey, it works.
 - Military squads now need four kinds of rooms, barracks, a training room, a military equipment room and a civilian equipment room. Figure out how to assign em, it's not hard. Basically create the appropriate room and assign a squad to it.
 - Military squads can now be assigned uniforms. You can stick with the premade ones until you get the hang of it.
 - Military squads can now be ordered to kill individual targets, BLOODY USEFUL.
 - Military squads need to be assigned schedules, you'll need to look into that. Have them training all the time at first, but make sure that you adjust the order. By default the order to train means that 10 dwarves are to train at all times, and that'll mean that no-one can take a break, ever. If you have a squad of five, you'll want to change the order so that only three or four dwarves are to train at all times. That way they'll be able to sleep and eat and all that.
 - BEWARE OF FORGOTTEN BEASTS, they sometimes carry disease or poisons that can cripple or destroy the entire fortress. Especially be very careful with ones that have poisonous blood.

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

2) Nope. But make sure you can make your fort can be made airtight if you have bridges crossing the canyon. Don't let any flying beasties get in.

3) Natural waterfalls are a special case in the game, it shouldn't pressurize the river.

4) Overstocking with food and booze is NEVER a problem. Just build bigger stockpiles. Your immigrants will eat their way through it eventually.

5) You can adjust your population cap. It's stored in a file in df\data\init\d_init.txt , you can change it something like 20 or 30. When you do want more immigrants, save the game, adjust the file again, and load the game.

6) The only way I know of preventing those kinds of interruptions is by not letting your dwarves see the fish. I recommend magma. Lot's of it.

I hope this was helpful.

Yours truly,
 Nahkh

[Pad]

Wow, that is a useful and complete answer, thank you very much !

Another question regarding defense : will the automated goblin grinder make a good defense while waiting for my squads to be skilled ?

[Flavio]

Nice embark!
Good luck with your new fortress!

[Chilton]

First, Your English is just fine.

Next, I suggest Damming the Waterfall, and building something on the Riverbed when it Dries Up.
Possibly a bunch of open Air Trap Rooms for Your Captives!

AND You can wash away the Blood whenever theyre dead and gone.

[Pad]

Thanks for your kind remarks.

Next, I suggest Damming the Waterfall, and building something on the Riverbed when it Dries Up.

Does it mean I have to dam both rivers (the one falling and the one at the bottom) ?

[Chilton]

Thanks for your kind remarks.

Next, I suggest Damming the Waterfall, and building something on the Riverbed when it Dries Up.

Does it mean I have to dam both rivers (the one falling and the one at the bottom) ?

There shouldnt be Water down the Bottom if its completely sealed from up above. Water doesnt go UP Waterfalls
So, theoretically, just up the top.

[Pad]

Thanks, I wasn't sure because it looks like the waterfall is the merging point of two rivers. I'll try to dam just the above one and see (and if I manage to dam this one, I don't see why I wouldn't be able to dam the bottom one if needed).

[Chilton]

Also, before You ask:

W = Water
C = Cliffside
E = Open Space
P = Platform
X = Wall
R = Pump leading to a 3x3x5 Hole
G = Ground

This is how one Dams a Waterfall in a Hurry using Wind Powered Pumps and Walls:
As it is now;

wwwwwwww
cccccccw
cccccccw
cccccccw
cccccccwww

The Project;
The Side:
ereereee
wwwwwX
cccccccX
ccccccc
ccccccc
ccccccc
Above:

GWWWG
RWWWR
GWWWG
GWWWG
RWWWR
GWWWG
GWWWG
GWWWG
XXXXX

[Loud Whispers]

oh, also, as an actual response, the best defence is a moat with a drawbridge and shitloads of candy serrated disc traps.

The best defence is a complete wall with no entrance. But that's no !FUN!! Seriously, turn your entire fortress into a professional military.

1) I never seemed to be able to really use the military aspect of the game in DF2010, so what kind of defensive setup would you recommend me to use ? (Taking trapavoid creatures into account)

What don't you get?

[Garath]

1) I never seemed to be able to really use the military aspect of the game in DF2010, so what kind of defensive setup would you recommend me to use ? (Taking trapavoid creatures into account)

for early stages, making sure you can seal your fort is priority no1. Most enemies leave after a while when they get bored. For those who don't, have a corridor with traps ready. Serrated discs are a favorite and are quite messy, spiked balls break lots of bones. Cage traps capture anything that lives
For trapavoid, have a small tower at your entrance. As the beast aproaches you close the entrance. Pathing is set and it will stay near the entrance. Alternatively, make a second entrance that allows you to easily close both entrances (in and out) while something is inside and gives your marksdwarves a good shooting field

FB are actually easy to kill and you may not want to use this: a support pillar holding up a floor placed at regular intervals along the map edge. The beast will rush to destroy the pillar, and once destroyed, the dropping floor kills it

2) I also need ideas/advices on pretty and dwarwish things to do with this map... Perhaps a fort spreading by the two sides of the canyon, connected with bridges crossing it ? Do you have something better and/or complementary to propose ?

entrance behind a waterfall, how classy, and it'll make your dorf happy, with a risk of being swept away and drowning as an added bonus. +1 points

3) Concerning pressure and waterfalls : the lower river goes south to north ; if I do tap it southern of the waterfall, will it be pressurized or not ?

it's not pressurized unless there is water above it, I think

4) I usually embark with 5 seeds of each crop and run 4 of them in a 3x3 farm plot (never made it to the point where I have use for dye yet) but each fort I made was overstocked with booze and meals in 1 or 2 years... (not even counting hundreds of seeds). Even though meals are a great trading item, how much could I reduce the size of my plots without starving my dwarves ?

I'm using 3x2 plots now and still have the same problem. In my next fort I'm going to use 2x2 plots. All my barrels and pots are used to store plants

5) I HATE having too many migrants too soon, but still end up with a 50+ population fort in 2 years. Is it possible to attract less of them ? How ? (by creating much less wealth ?) I'd like to say that killing them is not an option, I like it when my deceased dwarves screen is reduced to the minimum.

less wealth indeed, though the first two waves are always small. You could edit the pop cap to let fewer migrants in, but that would only start it's effect after the first liason gets back home

6) Will grates placed on the side of the river prevent my fisherdwarves from being interrupted by carps/longnoses/etc. ? (of course with fishing areas so that they don't go and fish on the grates)

no, no effect, but in the long run the fishes also flee off the map from your scary looking dwarfs

[Pad]

Thanks everyone for your answers, especially for the tips on the defense.

I have decided to go with the entrance behind the waterfall idea, I just love it ! As a bonus it came with the idea of accessing said entrance via a dodge-me traps filled long and narrow path above the canyon so that any unwanted visitor will be rewarded with a nice 6 Z-lvl bungee jump (without cord, it's funnyer) followed by a lovely swim with the carps below. And a way to collapse part(s) of that road in order to take care of elves trapavoid creatures.
Of course there will also be a shorter and more secure sealable road for dwarves that need to go outdoor.

That leads me to the point raised by Garath : is there a way to make the entrance a little bit more secure for dwarves when passing through the waterfall ? Walls along the path so that they can't fall in the water ? (Of course, the tiles where the water falls will be floor grates.) And do the fact that there are always 2 or 3 tiles (of the 5 that takes the waterfall) with water on them create complications for pathing and/or job cancellation spams ?

Another interesting (I think) idea came from the name the random generator gave to my fort : Crossblazed ! I have decided that my entire fort will be cross-shaped, but later on it'll be a great welcome sign to have a massive burning cross dominating the canyon. Raising another question : do constructions made out of flammable materials catch fire (16 z-lvl high !!lignite block cross!!, anyone ?) ? And if so, will it burn forever, or will it be a reminder of the non permanency of all things ?
If not, I think I'll have to mess with magma, like a cross with magma-bleeding stigmatas. But magma still feels too mundane. Any other idea ?