Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Generally me]

Well it's a work in progress. And I posted because I wanted advice to see if it was any good.

And as I said. Just pointing out that I made punctuation mistakes doesn't really help me much. Especially when I myself am not the best at using punctuation properly. So no matter how much I look over it I won't see it because I don't know it's a mistake.

[GiglameshDespair]

You had another ~350 words to use for description. Try a different excuse.

I suggested you sort out the punctuation. That is, quite frankly, the best way you can improve your work. Much of your dialogue misses punctuation or has it in the wrong place.

It's iPhone, not Iphone. Brand name.
You start sentences with but.
"I think ill stay here,"
'while the kids played with the Samuels two labradors'.
A lot of your dialogue just is closed off with quotation marks, without punctuation.

You can spot simple stuff like that.

You said you're not using me to check that sort of stuff:

I meant it at as these are the kind of mistakes that you really need an outside eye to spot. I'm not using you as a spell checker and I would rather have suggestions about how to improve it.

...so I wasn't intending to go through line-by-line.

'Fix your mistakes' is advice.

If you don't know, learn.

British punctuation
American punctuation

[Generally me]

I hadn't finished yet and was planning to write a lot more. Also don't assume I'm making excuses. Originally I just wanted someone to read it, give me some feedback and if they found mistakes when they were reading then too point them out. Now I'm having an argument on the Internet with some random guy about being helpful or something.

Edit: The links are genuinely extremely helpful. Thanks.l

Double Edit: Re read through the next day and I think I severely misread your advice. And I am sorry I was such an asshat.

[GiglameshDespair]

Double Edit: Re read through the next day and I think I severely misread your advice. And I am sorry I was such an asshat.

Alright. Shall we put this behind us?

Spoiler: Has yet to be named. (click to show/hide)

Three figures (What kind of figure? Default would be human), darkly impressed against the mountain sky, flew across the horizon. The one in front seemed to be clutching something in its front talons, with the other two behind him. They were colored darkly: the leader, a deep, rich bronze; the followers, a molybdenum(So silvery-grey? I doubt many know what molybdenum looks like, and it feels anachronistic.) gray. Soon, they flew out of eyesight.(Who's eyesight?)

   Across the mainland of Elotria, on a hidden grove of islands, surrounded by the ocean water, a similar beast landed. The creature was twenty feet in length, from the scaly head to the tip of its flexible tail. From the shoulders rose a pair of magnificent leathery wings. (The wings rising from another pair of limbs seems rather fractal. The wings themselves are another pair of limbs, unless they have six arms. With a reptilian horned head, and covered with shimmering, bright cyan scales, the creature imbued all who saw it with a sense of awe.  (Shifted this paragraph around because the sense of awe line feels best at the end.)
   This creature was called a dragon. (By who?)
   The dragon gently cradled an aquamarine hued egg in her front talons. She held the egg up to her face, and whispered softly. “We’re almost there, little.(Little what? Little one? Little egg? Feels like you accidentally a word.) It’s not much further.”
She drew in her wings(Shouldn't she unfurl her wings, rather than draw them in?, and took flight.

   They landed on one of the outer islands. The dragon stretched her wings, then began to walk. She had not gone far before a voice rang out.
   “Planning to sneak in without letting us know you’re here?” the voice called out, her voice jestful.
   “I’ve told you already. I don’t need all of you swarming around me the whole time. You have better things to do.” The cyan colored dragon shifted her talons.
   “Awww, admit it, you just don’t like the attention. ButI saw that egg. So, if I know you, you’re exhausted and fighting to stay on your talons. You’ve got the egg here. That’s no small thing. We can take care of it for a bit. You need the rest. I know you do,” the voice said cheerfully.
   She stifled a yawn, and felt the egg slipping. She scrambled to catch the egg before it hit the ground. She yawned again. Maybe the other dragon was right. Maybe she should let the others…
   She stumbled down a slope, leading into an underground tunnel, concealed with hanging vines. There was a dragon waiting in there, and studied her.
   “Ok, you really are way too tired, Angel. I’ll take the egg, if you want.” The dragon was pink, mottled with blue gave her a sympathetic look, then reached out her talons to take the egg. Angel snatched it away, holding onto it tightly.
   “Guess you’re not quite ready to leave it, after days of flying, are you?” She smiled at Angel. and withdrew her talons. “Let me show you in.”
   “Thanks, Koi. I guess… I don’t know… It’s stupid of me. She’s better off with you than me, in the state I am.” She ducked her head. “I guess it’s the exhaustion… clouding my thoughts.”
   The pink dragon, Koi, nodded, and brought her through the tunnel. Angel allowed herself to be led, her mind wandering as she stepped down the tunnel.

My initial thoughts. I'll give it a better read through in a bit.

Couple of other thouhts. Koi and Angel seem a bit, well, unlike dragon names. A type of carp and an angel isn't something you'd connect with dragons.

I'm bad at names, too. If it comes down to it, you can use a generator you find online.

[GiglameshDespair]

In what manner is your idea of a dragon unusual?

Using random words seems even odder. There's a lot of generators out there. You can find one you like, or that you can adjust the names for to something better.

At the end of the day, it's up to you, but Koi and Angel do not seem like dragon names.

[GiglameshDespair]

I don't know what kind of people you know, but I don't know many people 16-23 feet tall.

They don't have horns.

Eh?

with a reptilian horned head

But yeah, neither of those are unusual so far.

[Arx]

Shadow, I agree with Gig (i.e. the dragons in that story are traditional), but I'm not actually sure what exactly you're trying to express.

As for the story:

Spoiler: Has yet to be named. (click to show/hide)

Three figures, darkly impressed against the mountain sky, flew across the horizon. The one in front seemed to be clutching something in it’s front talons, with the other two behind him. They were colored darkly: the leader, a deep, rich, bronze; the followers, a molybdenum gray. Soon, they flew out of eyesight.

   Across the mainland of Elotria, on a hidden grove of islands, surrounded by the ocean water, a similar beast landed. The creature was twenty feet in length, from the scaly head to the tip of its flexible tail. Bright cyan in color, with a reptilian horned head, and covered with shimmering scales, the creature imbued all who saw it with a sense of awe. Above the shoulders, a pair of magnificent leathery wings rose from another pair of limbs.
   This creature, was called a dragon.
   The dragon gently cradled an aquamarine hued egg in her front talons. She held the egg up to her face, and whispered softly. “We’re almost there, little. It’s not much further.”
She drew in her wings, and took flight

   They landed on one of the outer islands. The dragon stretched her wings, then began to walk. She had not gone far, when a voice rang out.
   “Planning to sneak in without letting us know you’re here?” The voice called out, her voice jestful.
   “I’ve told you already. I don’t need all of you swarming around me the whole time. You have better things to do.” The cyan colored dragon shifted her talons.
   “Awww, admit it, you just don’t like the attention. But... saw that egg. So, if I know you, you’re exhausted and fighting to stay on your talons. You’ve got the egg here. That’s no small thing. We can take care of it for a bit. You need the rest. I know you do.” The voice said cheerfully.
   She stifled a yawn, and felt the egg slipping. She scrambled to catch the egg before it hit the ground. She yawned again. Maybe the other dragon  was right. Maybe she should let the others…
   She stumbled down a slope, leading into an underground tunnel, concealed with hanging vines. There was a dragon waiting in there, and studied her.
   “Ok, you really are way too tired, Angel. I’ll take the egg, if you want.” The dragon was pink, mottled with blue gave her a sympathetic look, then reached out her talons to take the egg. Angel snatched it away, holding onto it tightly.
   “Guess you’re not quite ready to leave it, after days of flying, are you?” She smiled at Angel. and withdrew her talons. “Let me show you in.”
   “Thanks, Koi. I guess… I don’t know… It’s stupid of me. She’s better off with you than me, in the state I am.” She ducked her head. “I guess it’s the exhaustion… clouding my thoughts.”
   The pink dragon, Koi, nodded, and brought her through the tunnel. Angel allowed herself to be led, her mind wandering as she stepped down the tunnel.

There are a couple of times where you could replace 'the egg' with 'it', which I've coloured red.

The sentence fragment in red doesn't make sense grammatically - there seem to be a few words missing?

Do be careful of overuse of commas. Whilst there are, technically, quite a lot of places you can use a comma, without it becoming, grammatically, incorrect, you should, probably, try to avoid doing it, too much, although this example is extreme and your story isn't anywhere near as bad.

Also watch out for redundancy; islands are by definition surrounded by water, so adding that they were surrounded by the ocean is overwriting.

It's pretty good, though. Keep writing!

[TD1]

Thanks for the feedback! Is this any better?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thick rain wreathed the land, and dark clouds filled with a malicious intent whirled in the cauldron-sky above. Across the barren hills occasional boulders, which in better weather poked grey and inquisitive out of the heather, seemed to be trying to shrink inwards, reach the safety of the earth below. The Hunt was afoot. With a flash of lightning, a man was illuminated. Another flash, and the length of his blade was revealed, held in steady hands. Around him in a twisted dance darted shapes out of nightmare, full of teeth and claws. Howls quivered in the air, bloodthirsty and somehow other, not like that of wolf or hound at all. Though his chill-blue eyes did not show it, the man was scared – more scared than he had ever been before. In his veins the blood pulsed, whipping the hounds into a frenzy. Faster and faster the Hunt ran, tightening in, forming a wall of dappled hides and slavering mouths. But he had a purpose here, and he would see it through.

Quick and sure now that he had made up his mind, he twirled the sword in hands calloused by use in war. Thunder rumbled and rain poured in a curtain around him, cutting him off from the rest of the world. Like quicksilver, his blade moved faster and faster, matching the fevered pitch of the Hounds. A barrier of light, picked out in the blasts of lightning above, seemed to form between man and beast. And still the sword turned, alive in his hands, whirling silver before the man's face. Snarling faces lunged at him, but with a casual flick the blade parted the air where they passed, holding them off. The insane swirling of the pack slowed as they realised something – this person in his plain travelling clothes was not the easy prey they had thought. Red-rimmed eyes analysed the situation, long, yellowing teeth were flashed. They could hear his heart beat faster, they could smell his fear. Snarling, elongated faces moved closer, some prowling to the side out of the reach of his biting metal, others advancing up front.

This is what he had hoped for. Time. Spaaace. Nudging a bundle forward with his foot, Jodin of the Fated Knights called in a voice that barely rose above the shrieking wind. His hard face set in steely determination as he spoke the words that doomed him.

“I am here for your master. I wish a trade – flesh and soul for his help. Bring him to me.” A single, long ululating howl answered him, the howl of a creature who has had something fundamental taken from it. Teeth that wished nothing more than to rend his flesh from bone snapped shut and turned from him, claws that would tear him instead bore their fleet bodies away. Watching as the hounds streamed across the land, dark forms under a dark sky, the man sighed at last – the only sound of apprehension he had made. Down each of his arms dark lines of ink told a story known only to himself, a tale of blood and death, a tale of little hope. The Hunt had been under way, but they were hounds yet. They yet followed their master's will, and it was their master's will that those who sought audience should have it. Despite the evil he had called, perhaps his soul could be redeemed. Maybe the tale he wrote on his arms would speak of warmth in the coming years. The lightning flashed, revealing the face of a babe wrapped in the cloths at his feet, and he knew otherwise.

I've picked out a couple of things. That first sentence a) runs on a lot and b) gets a bit confused toward the end. I think it's technically correct grammar, but it doesn't appear so at first glance.

The second thing is also correct, and I can see what you're going for, but it doesn't quite seem to fit. The third is more that the tense isn't entirely obvious; maybe change 'in' to 'into' or a clarification of a different tense?

The third is just that I think that should be 'that', not 'who', but eh.


Sorry that these are all just nitpicky things. I'm way too busy and stressed to do a better kind, and any feedback is better than no feedback, right? :/

Came here to post this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know the elephants upon the wheel aren't real,
Just stick out cut outs on the floor,
But looking down – oh, on looking down -
My child saw them, and he believed
And something deep inside me thought them real.

Cotton candy stretched in a line – “pink froth
From some old rainbow stream
Which tumbles over rocks and acrobatic lines,”
I told my son -
He looked, and how his eyes did dream!

Bright colours, silly wigs of twisted yarn
And we go on, oh ever on
'Neath twirling figures, suspended men -
“You know they're catching stars up there,
To help the ever coming dawn?”

He laughed. I did not think the elephants real
But looking through his eyes, they are.
Why not, why no magic for all of us?
See how they roll and tumble in our minds!
The best diversion, glowing circus star!

and realised I had missed this post. Thanks for the reply! Nitpicky stuff is in some ways the best - it means there are no huge glaring errors, only small ones

I appreciate the effort while you're stressed. Good luck in your exams! Hope the examiners have cause only to nitpick.

[Twinwolf]

...Most people are 5-6 feet tall. Unless you meant smaller in terms of weight.

[GiglameshDespair]

Say that their length is 18 ft as an average, and six feet of that is their tail, another three feet of that is their neck and head. That leaves them a body length of 9 ft.

If they have proportions relatively similar to german shepards, their truck length is ~15% larger than their trunk height, making them 7.8 feet tall on average.

So pretty large creatures, yeah. Larger than people.

If they were smaller than people, they might not really be awe-inspiring, either. NO one has ever been in awe of a daschhund.

[GiglameshDespair]

Fantasy or not is irrelevant to bodily proportions, unless the creature is deliberately skewed. As I said, a dragon with legs like a daschund is somewhat less awe-inspiring. Presumably, as dragons, they'd be measured mainly in horizontal length rather than vertically when their size is mentioned. Like crocodiles. Having a good sense of proportion and size is important when creating creatures. If they've got long legs or short legs, that'll affect them in a lot ways: running speed and thus hunting habits, where they'd live, their use as domesticated animals.

It also stops them turning out looking really silly.

Then why did you say they were smaller than people if they are, in fact, much larger than people? Similarly, why did you say they didn't have horns when they did?  One should strive for consistency. Even with the most unrealistic of subjects, inconsistency is what breaks suspension of disbelief: unless something is deliberately arbitrary, you should always ensure A is A and B is B.

[GiglameshDespair]

This one is... different. It's a story for a game on these forums set in a sort of blend of chinese and wild west sort of setting. Obviously, this story is very strongly cribbed from inspired by the story of Chang'e.

Spoiler: Wen-Tsu and the Moon Rabbit (click to show/hide)

Long ago, when only women were warriors, there was a maiden named Wen-Tsu. Her mother was the Lady of a noble house, and had no other heirs. Her husband, Wen-Tsu’s father, had passed away, and such was her mother’s love for her husband that she would take no other man.

Wen-Tsu was carefree – she shirked her duties, and roamed far afield in the grassy lands of Orinost. When she grew thirsty, she would drink from sparkling streams, and the furies of the waters would not harm her. When she grew hungry, she would pluck fruit from the trees, and the furies of the forests would offer her the most bountiful branches.

But one duty her mother always impressed on her was this: “You are the last of our line, and someday you must bear an heir to carry our name. Our name must not be forgotten into memory.” But each time her mother brought a suitor before her, Wen-Tsu would reject him, and harangue him until he left in disgrace.

As she wandered in her mother’s fields, she saw a rabbit, made of glowing jade. As she watched, the rabbit sprang up and turned into a girl, with beautiful, long white hair and skin so fine it shone. Wen-Tsu fell in love at once with this girl, but when she stepped closer the girl changed back into a rabbit and sprang away.

Wen-Tsu told her mother of her encounter, and her mother shook her head.
“Foolish girl, to love a spirit! You must bear an heir, so our name does not pass into memory.”
But Wen-Tsu was sure and full of young love, so she ignored her mother and again searched for the jade rabbit-girl. Twice she saw the rabbit-girl, and twice the rabbit sprang away. Finally, one night, the moon was dark, and Wen-Tsu was sleeping in her room, when a bright light woke her. She stirred, and saw the rabbit-girl before her.

“Why do you seek me?” asked the rabbit-girl.
Wen-Tsu was so surprised all she could speak was the truth. “Because I love you,” Wen-Tsu replied, and the rabbit-girl nodded and thought.
“Very well,” the rabbit-girl said. “I shall be yours, but you shall be mine; you will have no other, or I will scorn your touch, and we will never again be together.”

Wen-Tsu agreed, and the rabbit-girl became hers. During the day, they were walk the fields and swim in the rivers of her mother’s lands, and during the night, the rabbit-girl would take her in her arms and leap to the moon, where they would watch the world and share a lovers’ touch.

A year passed, and Wen-Tsu was happy, but then her mother passed to dance with furies. Wen-Tsu was reminded of her duty to produce an heir, but she also remembered the rabbit-girl’s words. So one day, she begged illness to the rabbit-girl, and pretended to sleep. Instead, she walked out in the night, of hoping to meet a man she may lay with to conceive an heir. She met a tall man with a sad face and white hair, who eventually agreed to lay with her.

For nine months, she begged any excuse of the rabbit-girl, so that the deception would not be noticed when she swelled with child. Finally, she bore a daughter, with hair as white as snow.
When the rabbit-girl approached her that night, Wen-Tsu agreed to go out with the rabbit-girl, and together they leaped to the moon. But once they landed there, the rabbit-girl turned to her in anger.

“Faithfulness you promised me, and faithlessness was given! Never again will you feel my touch!” and she turned to a rabbit and sprang away. As she had before, Wen-Tsu chased after the rabbit, but every time she got close, the ground would crumble below her, and by the time she struggled out the grand crater, the agile rabbit had leapt away once more. Wen-Tsu chased the rabbit around the whole moon, and that is why the moon goes from thick to thin and back. Every thirty days, the rabbit takes pity on Wen-Tsu, and together they will watch the world for a night, to see how her daughter had grown, and hence why a full moon is known as a lover’s moon.

But in the morn the rabbit will spring away again, and Wen-Tsu will continue her eternal chase.

[TD1]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know the elephants upon the wheel aren't real,
Just stick out cut outs on the floor,
But looking down – oh, on looking down -
My child saw them, and he believed
And something deep inside me thought them real.

Cotton candy stretched in a line – “pink froth
From some old rainbow stream
Which tumbles over rocks and acrobatic lines,”
I told my son -
He looked, and how his eyes did dream!

Bright colours, silly wigs of twisted yarn
And we go on, oh ever on
'Neath twirling figures, suspended men -
“You know they're catching stars up there,
To help the ever coming dawn?”

He laughed. I did not think the elephants real
But looking through his eyes, they are.
Why not, why no magic for all of us?
See how they roll and tumble in our minds!
The best diversion, glowing circus star!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I long to make the meter dance
And twirl on chords of bardic joy -
With such a skill, I'd paint in words
Of gods and how they fought for Troy.

Grant unto me, oh spectral one
The grace my fathers knew-
Make every note shine like the sun,
Let each chord ring out true!

For long I've spent in quiet hope
Of something that I can't express.
Where is the greater scope
That comes with your caress?

Do not shy from mortality!
It makes my inner furnace burn,
And with its flame I'll forge a song
If only you would come along

And hold my hand, that shining light
Would make me seem a bird
Who trills unconscious songs
Which Homer near the Aegean heard.

I need this, muse of ancient myth,
For if you deign to be my flame
I'll use my pens to craft a song
The like of which will never come again.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Great thunder booms like pounding hooves -
Such tremors of celestial beasts!
Surely the lightning is the strike-of-stone
Of those who on electric steeds must roam,
And hence the great deluge will come
To rid us of the paling sun -
For who can look a lily in the eye
When time has come, when we must die?

Great thunder! Ye gods, do you make sport?
Is that the back and forth of power,
Darting as does the thread of life
Along the border of a knife?
Such crackles! Smite me now, be done of all
The woes which trickle as the rives does,
For I am done with you, great blasts and blows!
Come you once more, my ancient foes.

Like dawn! Like pain! Like hate! Like darkness, and like life,
Give me your strife, give me your strife.
I wandered long beneath a cloud, to sing a song
Not knowing that to have no rain is wrong.
So string me up and hang me as one hangs their coat,
My moving pen moves on, and what it knew it wrote-
I've nothing left. So sing with me, you thunder lords,
Sing the song of the clouds that housed these lightning swords!

As does the mellow flower look up at the sun,
Yet shield his shying head from moonlight's glow,
So too I love the Lightning Seams of life,
The darkness showing light through strife,
Yet fear more gentle fords were I may row
In peace with all the things below -
So no! The gods will let me ride the horse
That rides the lightning's jagged course!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Grieve, now, you humble man
Who sees the kings above.
Your plight is answered by the gun
And not the feathered dove.

Forget, my drunken friend
When all of mankind spoke as one
For then we knew the hope of day,
Yet now we've lost the sun.

All that you wanted was a home, a wife
A fire to raise your spirits high
But up above, the winds of court
Would leave you cold to die.

And yet, 'neath all the toils of man
Who works in circles on the earth,
Beats, beats, beats the passion
Of those who know your worth.

Hang up the flag on high, see
It scrape the sky. This is what
The kings can't take away.

Hear what, my friend, I say
The kings are out the door
For here we stand as common men
Whose sweat had raised them from the floor.

Forget the past and all it did,
Your heart is pure beneath-
No ruler takes that spark away,
No gun can still its heat.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Give me a second, just one time
When I can see infinity face to face
And see the seams-
The blue and gold-
Hold onto each and every bulge,
Ride on each fold
And tell me that the universe is not
A virus
On the face of the earth.

I don't know what I see
Blue, gold?
Why not the seams
That run through the mountain,
The matter,
Time?

Wake from the deepest sleep-
Rise, it's only atom dream
Where worlds are held
In orbit by nothing
And earth is round
And there is singing.

Seraphic sound! The dream I dreamt I saw
Called life
Is over
And I'm awake.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

So, I want to begin writing a novel. To start my pre-outline preparations, I'll be testing out the literary laws of my world in an experimental short story... Along with figuring out the tone, the people, the world, etc. I've been sitting on this idea for many years now I think I finally want to start writing that first draft.

The first problem that's come up is technology. Specifically, guns. The setting is post-apocalyptic USA, some 500 years after the collapse of sovereign states worldwide due to mass economic, political, and social problems leading to a general loss of knowledge concerning chemistry, manufacturing, and production. I'd like to explore the idea of the worship of technology much like Asimov's Foundation or even in a W40k-esque way. What I want to be able to (at least somewhat logically) arrive at is the general disadvantage of firearms... They may even still be widespread, but melee combat is much more prevalent--if not dominant--in this world. A world where fast-moving armor is the ultimate cavalry force, but lacks heavy machine guns, main battle cannons, or other such highly-specialized weaponry. In the same world, fortifications are again relevant, horse-mounted cavalry ride alongside tanks, and large infantry formations are back in the field. The themes should add up to a twist on medieval warfare, with traces of the 18th and 19th centuries, bundled with some of the left over equipment of the modern day.

So my first thought was to get rid of firearms entirely... but how? Metal is in abundance, especially after a decline in urban populations and mass scavenging. Gunpowder can almost always be produced in some form... So that's not going to work.

Then, I thought, well why not make firearms irrelevant? Technology like highly advanced armor perhaps? Sure, but how and where? The world has lost too much to be able to produce advanced, bullet-stopping armor en masse. Ok, forcefields like those found in Dune or Forever War? I feel like that's taking artistic license too far, and somewhat of a non-sequitor.

My final thought was to allow a degree of relatively primitive firearms, but that leaves n0 reason to regress to a melee dominant system of warfare.

So where do I go from here, what do you think? Ideally, i'd like to end up in a place where the average soldier is heavily armored and equipped with some manner of melee weapon, tanks are the ultimate form of heavy cavalry, and only crude artillery and explosives exist with any kind of commonality.

[GiglameshDespair]

Quite frankly, if they have means of production, it doesn't work. If your sociecty can build a tank, it can almost certainly build a gun. Both indicate a knowledge of metallurgy and mechanics. If like early tanks, they're petrol-powered you need some knowledge of chemistry to distil crude into usable fuel for vehicles. The medieval alchemists knew and could produce nitric acid, even if they didn't know what made it tick; they didn't know they could produce  you can probably make impact explosives, such as mercury fulminate, out of it, but that base knowledge is there now, with access to the materials needed to make it.

If you have chemistry knowledge (enough for working vehicles and the like) you can probably make impact explosives. Therefore you can make primers and, combined with there are surviving examples of old world technology, you can reproduce those sorts of guns. A gun doesn't have to be complicated to be automatic; but even a basic bolt action rifle would give you a colossal advantage against those who didn't. Even muskets became the standard issue for a reason.

The knowledge is there already - and its recorded, so the knowledge would still be around. It's too useful, and kinda simple, to forget all over america. Without a big cataclysm to openly destroy the knowledge... I'm not really seeing it.

Sorry I can't really help.