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[EuchreJack]

Wait, wait. There was a Romancing SaGa game for the PSX? Or...

Oh. The SaGa Frontier stuff? Yeah, they're alright. The SNES ones felt a lot more coherent to me, which is troubling considering how patchy the fantranses are and how nonlinear th'bloody things were. Iirc, 3's mostly playable, but I don't think 2 ever got anything really shoved through for it. Few things in the works, but...

Anyway, my obligatory mention is for Black Sigil, on the NDS. It's surprisingly decent, and very much old-school.

Nope, I was actually refering to the Romancing SaGa game they remade/updated/whatever for the PSX.  They took the original SNES game and redid it for the PSX.  Dunno how the original for the SNES was, but I liked the PSX game.

I played an emulated version of Romancing SaGa 2.  It was awesome, but the lack of english eventually got to me.

[Neonivek]

Uhhh, yeah... well... I will admit I never played Albion so I can't speak for that but... Ultima (any) was not hard and Lands of Lore (any) was not hard. In fact, both series are actually pretty easy.
It amazes me how much and to what extent people create fictional memories of 'old' games

Comming at them without a history of those games... Is a huge barrier.

As well even the EASIEST Ultima ever made is tougher then 99% of RPGs that came out in the last 10 years.

Land of Lore doesn't mess around. It will freeken kill you.

Also I hope you played Ultima (all) and Lands of Lore (all)...

[Frumple]

Nope, I was actually refering to the Romancing SaGa game they remade/updated/whatever for the PSX.  They took the original SNES game and redid it for the PSX.  Dunno how the original for the SNES was, but I liked the PSX game.

... by PSX, do you mean PS2? Because if they did any SaGa game for the PSX besides the frontier ones, I'm not finding mention of it. Give links or something, Frumple want

[goldark]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Etrian Odyssey, first person dungeoning, different and varied class, maybe not so much story driven, but hard as hell, and on the plus side you draw your own map.

[monkey]

Gothic 1 / 2 ?

[chaoticag]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Etrian Odyssey, first person dungeoning, different and varied class, maybe not so much story driven, but hard as hell, and on the plus side you draw your own map.

Seconding Etrian Odyssey, but for your sanity's sake, start at the third. The first two games are the least fair of the bunch.

Not too sure if I have anything else to recommend as "hardcore" other than Vagrant Story.

[Leatra]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Etrian Odyssey, first person dungeoning, different and varied class, maybe not so much story driven, but hard as hell, and on the plus side you draw your own map.

Seconding Etrian Odyssey, but for your sanity's sake, start at the third. The first two games are the least fair of the bunch.

Not too sure if I have anything else to recommend as "hardcore" other than Vagrant Story.

I thought Etrian Odyssey 3 is only for Nintendo DS

[GlyphGryph]

Oh man, I'll second Vagrant Story. That was an interesting game.

[hawkeye_de]

Thx guys for your input...got some inspirations :-)

[chaoticag]

I thought Etrian Odyssey 3 is only for Nintendo DS

Ummm, yes?
I didn't know that someone suggested otherwise, or that someone put some conditions on what we should bring up depending on the platform it's on?

[Leatra]

I thought Etrian Odyssey 3 is only for Nintendo DS

Ummm, yes?
I didn't know that someone suggested otherwise, or that someone put some conditions on what we should bring up depending on the platform it's on?

Nevermind. I really wanted to play it and I thought there was a PC version maybe.

[Blackray Jack]

Shadowrun for the sega genesis. Nice challenge, and an INCREDIBLY deep hacking system for a game back from the SNES/Genesis days.

[GlyphGryph]

Weren't there TWO Shadowruns for the Genesis?

[Roundabout Lout]

Weren't there TWO Shadowruns for the Genesis?

There was a SNES Shadowrun, and a Genesis Shadowrun, both being completely different games.

[Deon]

Ah, I loved playing Shadowrun on Genesis emulator. It even inspired me to start a DF shadowrun mod .