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[Valid_Dark]

Yes, yes I am.

and if it bothers you so much that I'm not a corporation, read what I said at the bottom of page 25 but pretend it's some greedy corporation saying it instead of a person.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

In Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, 118 U.S. 394, the Supreme Court recognized corporations as persons for the purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment.

and

In Dartmouth College v. Woodward, The Supreme Court recognized corporations as having the same rights as natural persons

There's been contradictory ruling after ruling over the years about corporate personhood, with it being banned in 1907 (when progressive politics and positive change was actually wanted) and reinstated in the 70's (basically leading to Reaganomics as we see it today). The main issue is the fairness behind it, not the legislation.

[Valid_Dark]

most things aren't fair,
is it fair that corporations now get to copyright other peoples work? no, no it's not.
is it fair that while walking down the street I saw someone find a $20 bill on the ground and I didn't get one? no, not it's not.
is it fair that some people aren't allowed to have cats because they're allergic, or can't drink milk? no, no it's not.

etc. the list could go on forever

[SalmonGod]

most things aren't fair,
is it fair that corporations now get to copyright other peoples work? no, no it's not.
is it fair that while walking down the street I saw someone find a $20 bill on the ground and I didn't get one? no, not it's not.
is it fair that some people aren't allowed to have cats because they're allergic, or can't drink milk? no, no it's not.

etc. the list could go on forever

I don't get your point.  Does this excuse anyone for making a situation intentionally unfair?

[kaijyuu]

People say "life isn't fair" like that's somehow a reason to not try to make it fairer.


It's baffling.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

most things aren't fair,
is it fair that corporations now get to copyright other peoples work? no, no it's not.
is it fair that while walking down the street I saw someone find a $20 bill on the ground and I didn't get one? no, not it's not.
is it fair that some people aren't allowed to have cats because they're allergic, or can't drink milk? no, no it's not.

etc. the list could go on forever

Is there a law written that makes you donate the 20$ bill you find on the ground to the nearest multi-million dollar owning person?

How about a law that prevents allergic people from owning an animal that they prefer?

How about you come up with an arguement instead of being an ass.

[Valid_Dark]

you said the main issue with corporate personhood is the fairness behind it.  It may not be fair, but in the eyes of the U.S. law corporations are people and there is nothing you or I personally can do to change that.
same with my other examples, they aren't fair, but there's nothing I could do to change any of it.  Things happen without my consent like these laws being passed or people being born with allergies or people finding money.  But there isn't anything I could do to change it.

Ya I understand you're saying one of those examples stems out of laws passed by humans, while the others don't have any sort of human input, but I'm just trying to say it's all the same because it's all equally out of your or my control

[kaijyuu]

I take it you don't have much faith in democracy.

[Valid_Dark]

do I personally get to vote for anything that happens?

did I get to vote on the SOPA/PIPA bill, or the Corporate public domain copyright bill? no

does my vote for the president really count? no, because the presidential election is really an Indirect election who is really elected by the Electoral College

unless I get into politics and actually become a member of the electoral college or supreme court or house of representatives or congress my vote simply doesn't matter.

I can do things like sign petitions, which never really forces anything, but shows the people in power, "hey look, this many people signed this piece of paper saying they want something to happen or not to happen"

I have very little faith in democracy

[SHAD0Wdump]

I take it you don't have much faith in democracy.

It's hard to have faith when it gets to this point.

[YetAnotherStupidDorf]

and abolishing copyright wouldn't fix anything.

Extreme measures always look like that when one lazily sits on ass tapping on computer. I repeat: I do not believe abolishing copyright will be neccessary, but it is very revelant to human rights, more precisely freedom of speech. There were already cases of using copyright as censorship tool (most infamously, Scientology).

Um, you seem to mistake copyright with patents, trade secrets etc. It is different can of worms.

How so?

You: "Large companies stealing ideas, concepts and entire products". This does not have anything with copyright. For example, ideas are covered by patents.

2. Sorry, but I've missed what you said :d

Me: "Robber to victim: "Okay, let's compromise - I will rob you from 50$ instead of original 100$". That kind of compromise."

I take it you don't have much faith in democracy.

Pseudodemocracy a la USA, yeah. Eternal dupopoly of two parties, one slightly less retarded than another. You get to choose between fundamentalistic redneck thug and whiny spineless idiot - and both will behave almost identical. My country (that have shitload of its own issues) is more democratic than USA will ever be.

[Loud Whispers]

and abolishing copyright wouldn't fix anything.

Extreme measures always look like that when one lazily sits on ass tapping on computer. I repeat: I do not believe abolishing copyright will be neccessary, but it is very revelant to human rights, more precisely freedom of speech. There were already cases of using copyright as censorship tool (most infamously, Scientology).

That's what we have the DMCA for.

Um, you seem to mistake copyright with patents, trade secrets etc. It is different can of worms.

How so?

You: "Large companies stealing ideas, concepts and entire products". This does not have anything with copyright. For example, ideas are covered by patents.

Patents protect inventions, not ideas, concepts, and sometimes, products.

2. Sorry, but I've missed what you said :d

Me: "Robber to victim: "Okay, let's compromise - I will rob you from 50$ instead of original 100$". That kind of compromise."

Really?

...

Really?

_{Also enough with the nationalism, insulting people over the internet is a very low thing to do.}

[MorleyDev]

"Life isn't fair" to me always sounds like saying "Tuesday isn't purple". Sure, it's a true statement but I'm never sure on the logic that connects them...

[YetAnotherStupidDorf]

For example, ideas are covered by patents.

Patents protect inventions, not ideas, concepts, and sometimes, products.

Without ideas, there would be no inventions. And I don't think copyright have anything to do with ideas, concepts or products. Maybe "product" can qualify, but thats it.

Really?

Yes, really. This is how much I trust them about any "compromise" about SOPA/PIPA.

Also enough with the nationalism

So I am nationalist because I consider political system of my country more democratic (whatever this means) than USA? Interesting.

insulting people over the internet is a very low thing to do.

I am sure as hell did not insulted anyone in particular.

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Patents protect inventions, not ideas, concepts, and sometimes, products.

Without ideas, there would be no inventions. And I don't think copyright have anything to do with ideas, concepts or products. Maybe "product" can qualify, but thats it.

Do you see how those sentences have absolutely no cohesion?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Really?

Yes, really. This is how much I trust them about any "compromise" about SOPA/PIPA.

Missed the point. Not a compromise.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also enough with the nationalism

So I am nationalist because I consider political system of my country more democratic (whatever this means) than USA? Interesting.

insulting people over the internet is a very low thing to do.

I am sure as hell did not insulted anyone in particular.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Pseudodemocracy a la USA, yeah. Eternal dupopoly of two parties, one slightly less retarded than another. You get to choose between fundamentalistic redneck thug and whiny spineless idiot - and both will behave almost identical. My country (that have shitload of its own issues) is more democratic than USA will ever be.

Erm, yeah, thanks for that. I'm really interested in how your government works in a discussion about SOPA -_-

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Extreme measures always look like that when one lazily sits on ass tapping on computer.

You leave my ass alone, he works hard ploughing my fields of corn >:|

Not to mention you're being arrogant, and patronising.