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[Urist Imiknorris]

I'm unfortunately going to need a replacement. Too busy for two Mafia games.

[webadict]

Well, you knew that I was either:

A. The sort of person to kill Jim, a strong town player

or

B. The sort of person to kill GlyphGryph, someone you said you'd instahammer given the chance

With these odds, you decided to bluntly declare me a killer, letting scum know you were an actioncop and I was a vig. Nothing more nuanced? Nothing more subtle? Nothing that webadict, Townhunter Extraordinaire could do to determine whether I was scum or vig with the right idea?

Yeah, that's a bit odd.

Meh. I could care less about letting everyone know you killed someone. Why should that matter to me? What good is my knowledge if no one else has it? I don't need subtlety. I don't need my role. What I do need is to figure out who you killed, and why you did it. K, pumpkin?

Right.

Makes sense. Unvote.

Wuba, what the fuck?

OMGUS. Awesome start, Dariush.

[IronyOwl]

Orangebottle:

Well, it's simple: I was roleblocked last night. So no, he couldn't have made his claim believable at all.

I wasn't the first person to refer to it as a bluff. It was Ottofar, then IronyOwl. I would've said that I was never at Jim's either way, so why does that really matter?

The way you worded it strikes me as really bizarre. I don't see how it would be an obvious bluff to anyone else, and calling it an "obvious bluff" from your perspective doesn't make any sense, because you know for a fact that he's lying. Phrasing it like this makes me think it was viable but ridiculous in some fashion, like you weren't the one doing the NK last night.

Would you have confessed were you really new to the game?

No, I guess not. My reaction probably would've been much more aggressive, but that's about it.

Then why do you think his bluff relied on you being new?

You also didn't call him on it other than to deny it, so what did that have to do with how obvious it was?

What? I exposed his bluff by saying that I wasn't at Jim's last night. I couldn't have been at Jim's last night on account of being roleblocked.

You didn't mention the roleblock, or explicitly say he was bluffing, or in any other way address the issue other than to say "no." Again, this seems less like "He claimed something that wasn't true, so I called him on it" and more like "He called me on something I knew I was safe for, so I denied it."



Dariush:

Makes sense. Unvote.

I still want to know how you'd have claimed it, and why this didn't make sense earlier.



webadict:

Meh. I could care less about letting everyone know you killed someone. Why should that matter to me? What good is my knowledge if no one else has it? I don't need subtlety. I don't need my role. What I do need is to figure out who you killed, and why you did it. K, pumpkin?

Right.

Why wouldn't that matter to you? Don't you want someone running around killing GlyphGryphs unimpeded?

Saying you don't need your role is laughably backwards. If you didn't need it, you'd have scumhunted me normally and figured out who I'd been killing and why that way.



Powder Miner, where's that content? What made you so nervous that you thought you had to abandon the game altogether?

[Orangebottle]

The way you worded it strikes me as really bizarre. I don't see how it would be an obvious bluff to anyone else, and calling it an "obvious bluff" from your perspective doesn't make any sense, because you know for a fact that he's lying.

How are bluff and lie not synonymous? You're being really technical about this.

Then why do you think his bluff relied on you being new?

He was simultaneously calling me scum and bluffing about receiving an action result that lead to him fingering me as Jim's killer. It's amateur-level pressure designed to get newbscum to panic.

You didn't mention the roleblock, or explicitly say he was bluffing, or in any other way address the issue other than to say "no." Again, this seems less like "He claimed something that wasn't true, so I called him on it" and more like "He called me on something I knew I was safe for, so I denied it."

I didn't want to claim the roleblock.

[webadict]

webadict:

Meh. I could care less about letting everyone know you killed someone. Why should that matter to me? What good is my knowledge if no one else has it? I don't need subtlety. I don't need my role. What I do need is to figure out who you killed, and why you did it. K, pumpkin?

Right.

Why wouldn't that matter to you? Don't you want someone running around killing GlyphGryphs unimpeded?

Saying you don't need your role is laughably backwards. If you didn't need it, you'd have scumhunted me normally and figured out who I'd been killing and why that way.

But you're acting like your role was more important than finding out who you killed.

Look at it this way:

Either you killed Jim Groovester, or you killed GlyphGryph. If I die, the only one who knows this is you and me. Now everyone knows. I don't have to worry about it. Now we can tell you who to kill, instead of you choosing on your own. In fact, what makes you think GlyphGryph was a better kill than anyone else? GlyphGryph was certainly an odd fellow to kill. If you wanted to remove someone useless, there's always Ottofar, right?

So, how about you complain more about everything? Is there a condition that exists on your kill? I can't even be sure you're not mafia or an sk, but I can make sure you kill exactly who we tell you to kill.

Because that's what you just earned yourself. You earned getting your kill forced. That's what you get for being a pansy.

So, in the end, how is letting nobody know about your murder spree better than not?

[Leafsnail]

Well, it's simple: I was roleblocked last night. So no, he couldn't have made his claim believable at all.

I wasn't the first person to refer to it as a bluff. It was Ottofar, then IronyOwl. I would've said that I was never at Jim's either way, so why does that really matter?

This response really confuses me.  Sure, you weren't the first person to call it a bluff.  But you said you knew it was a bluff from the moment he said it.  And I'm not sure what you being roleblocked has to do with whether you thought he was lying or bluffing.

Ottofar's still worse though.

[IronyOwl]

Orangebottle:

The way you worded it strikes me as really bizarre. I don't see how it would be an obvious bluff to anyone else, and calling it an "obvious bluff" from your perspective doesn't make any sense, because you know for a fact that he's lying.

How are bluff and lie not synonymous? You're being really technical about this.

I am, but the difference bothers me. "Obvious bluff" sounds like he's bluffing badly- ie he had some chance at pulling something off- not that he's saying something you know flat-out isn't true. "Obvious lie" sounds more like he couldn't possibly be telling the truth- ie it was stupid and failed utterly from the start- which from your perspective should have been the case.

You didn't mention the roleblock, or explicitly say he was bluffing, or in any other way address the issue other than to say "no." Again, this seems less like "He claimed something that wasn't true, so I called him on it" and more like "He called me on something I knew I was safe for, so I denied it."

I didn't want to claim the roleblock.

Why not, and why did you?



webadict:

But you're acting like your role was more important than finding out who you killed.

And you're acting like it was one or the other.

Look at it this way:

Either you killed Jim Groovester, or you killed GlyphGryph. If I die, the only one who knows this is you and me. Now everyone knows. I don't have to worry about it. Now we can tell you who to kill, instead of you choosing on your own. In fact, what makes you think GlyphGryph was a better kill than anyone else? GlyphGryph was certainly an odd fellow to kill. If you wanted to remove someone useless, there's always Ottofar, right?

Look at it this way:

You just answered jack shit, then went off into an indefensible tangent that's already been answered. Even if I hadn't already explained why I killed GG, how the fuck do you figure on suggesting he was a bad kill after wanting him dead so badly yesterday? And if this was an issue, why is it an issue now, despite declaring me sensible and unvoting earlier?

It's almost like you're so used to RIA that you've got no fucking idea how to handle legitimate questions.

So, how about you complain more about everything? Is there a condition that exists on your kill? I can't even be sure you're not mafia or an sk, but I can make sure you kill exactly who we tell you to kill.

Because that's what you just earned yourself. You earned getting your kill forced. That's what you get for being a pansy.

So, in the end, how is letting nobody know about your murder spree better than not?

Really? How you gonna do that?

In the end, letting nobody know about my murder spree is better than not because it lets me continue it without scum knowing who I am or what's going on, as well as allowing you to continue your inspections without scum knowing who you are or what's going on. It's almost like you don't care about scum knowing that kind of stuff because they already know about it.

[Orangebottle]

I am, but the difference bothers me. "Obvious bluff" sounds like he's bluffing badly- ie he had some chance at pulling something off- not that he's saying something you know flat-out isn't true. "Obvious lie" sounds more like he couldn't possibly be telling the truth- ie it was stupid and failed utterly from the start- which from your perspective should have been the case.

Again, you and ottofar were the ones who started calling it a bluff. However, you are on to something there.

Why not, and why did you?

This response really confuses me.  Sure, you weren't the first person to call it a bluff.  But you said you knew it was a bluff from the moment he said it.  And I'm not sure what you being roleblocked has to do with whether you thought he was lying or bluffing.

I'd like to ask you to think. Just for a few seconds. There's only one reason that anybody is ever told that they've been roleblocked.

Also, because that's why I knew Ottofar was bluffing.

[IronyOwl]

I am, but the difference bothers me. "Obvious bluff" sounds like he's bluffing badly- ie he had some chance at pulling something off- not that he's saying something you know flat-out isn't true. "Obvious lie" sounds more like he couldn't possibly be telling the truth- ie it was stupid and failed utterly from the start- which from your perspective should have been the case.

Again, you and ottofar were the ones who started calling it a bluff. However, you are on to something there.

Why not, and why did you?

This response really confuses me.  Sure, you weren't the first person to call it a bluff.  But you said you knew it was a bluff from the moment he said it.  And I'm not sure what you being roleblocked has to do with whether you thought he was lying or bluffing.

I'd like to ask you to think. Just for a few seconds. There's only one reason that anybody is ever told that they've been roleblocked.

Also, because that's why I knew Ottofar was bluffing.

On rereading, this seems to make sense. The wording is still off, but it was in direct response to being asked about it in those terms, so.

The rest checks out as well. My bad.

[webadict]

webadict:

But you're acting like your role was more important than finding out who you killed.

And you're acting like it was one or the other.

Cry me a river. I'm going to claim things that are important. Argue with me more. It's accomplishing things.

Look at it this way:

Either you killed Jim Groovester, or you killed GlyphGryph. If I die, the only one who knows this is you and me. Now everyone knows. I don't have to worry about it. Now we can tell you who to kill, instead of you choosing on your own. In fact, what makes you think GlyphGryph was a better kill than anyone else? GlyphGryph was certainly an odd fellow to kill. If you wanted to remove someone useless, there's always Ottofar, right?

Look at it this way:

You just answered jack shit, then went off into an indefensible tangent that's already been answered. Even if I hadn't already explained why I killed GG, how the fuck do you figure on suggesting he was a bad kill after wanting him dead so badly yesterday? And if this was an issue, why is it an issue now, despite declaring me sensible and unvoting earlier?

It's almost like you're so used to RIA that you've got no fucking idea how to handle legitimate questions.

Yadda yadda yadda, you killed someone and I should've just let nobody find out!

Suck a lemon.

Your basing your kill on MY reasoning. Not on your own. Why did YOU want to kill Glyphgryph? Because that's the question. It doesn't matter if I wanted him dead. Why did YOU want him dead? Yesterday, you suspected Urist_McArathos and Think0028. So, why didn't you kill either one of them?

So, how about you complain more about everything? Is there a condition that exists on your kill? I can't even be sure you're not mafia or an sk, but I can make sure you kill exactly who we tell you to kill.

Because that's what you just earned yourself. You earned getting your kill forced. That's what you get for being a pansy.

So, in the end, how is letting nobody know about your murder spree better than not?

Really? How you gonna do that?

In the end, letting nobody know about my murder spree is better than not because it lets me continue it without scum knowing who I am or what's going on, as well as allowing you to continue your inspections without scum knowing who you are or what's going on. It's almost like you don't care about scum knowing that kind of stuff because they already know about it.

Because if you don't kill who we say you kill, we lynch you. Got it?

And no. It's not. I'd rather you get killed. Why? Because you miskilled at best, and you're scum at worst. So, if you die because of that, then good riddance. You're doing a whole lot of good now arguing about your role. Argue with me more. Do it. It shows how much of a whiny priss you are. So, Diane, why don't you go cry in a corner. Don't forget your purse.

If you had shot correctly, I would not have cared as much. But you didn't. So, now your role is known. Congrats.

Also, if I were scum with this knowledge, I'd have just killed you tonight without anyone knowing. Because then you wouldn't have a chance to be protected. It wouldn't make sense to let a potential doctor protect you. So, how you came up with that situation is beyond me, because it makes so much less sense to do your plan.

I am just teetering on the edge to vote you. The only reason I don't is because you have your next post to convince me that your life is valuable and worth something.

[Think0028]

Dariush: It was rhetorical. I was phrasing it to push him to commit to his position, as I felt it was a bluff. As he folded instantly, that plan fell apart.

Webadict. You're grandstanding scum who's trying to bring the vigilante issue to the forefront to bring greater control on them to prevent them from hitting scum.

[Ottofar]

The bluff was just that. I'm fairly sure OB'd reacted differently if he had actually visited Jim.

But yeah. I kinda need a Votecount, please

[Ottofar]

Scratch that, actually. Extend. Seems to be tied between me and webs.

Also, I'd much like to live until tomorrow.

[Dariush]

Dariush:

Makes sense. Unvote.

I still want to know how you'd have claimed it, and why this didn't make sense earlier.

I mostly had a gut feeling that a vig would say "Yes, I indeed killed GG for that and that" instead of just agreeing with a statement that he killed someone. Besides, I wanted to see how you would react to a pressure vote.

OMGUS. Awesome start, Dariush.

Vote me with no reasons -> ignore TWO questions why you did it -> support your previous vote with an OMGUS accusation. Are you absolutely sure that's how someone who wants to find scum instead of just gliding through the day digging up bullshit would behave?...

[Toaster]

Vote Count:

Urist Imiknorris:
Orangebottle:
Powder Miner: Urist Imiknorris
Think0028:
Ottofar: Orangebottle, IronyOwl, Leafsnail
Dariush: webadict
Urist_McArathos:
webadict: Powder Miner, Dariush, Think0028
IronyOwl:
Leafsnail:

Not Voting:  Ottofar, Urist_McArathos

Day 2 will last until Monday 2/6 at 11 PM EST, ~14 hours from now.

One vote for extension.  Four needed to extend the day.

Urist_McArathos and Urist Imiknorris have asked for replacements.