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[IronyOwl]

Edit By Way Of Post.

I'm just not giving other reasons on why I said I'm waiting as it may tip off the scum to my plan.

Better be an awesome fucking plan when you do explain it, then.

You also sound nervous, why is that?

[Jim Groovester]

But I'm still watching them, GlyphGryph wants answers to most of his questions ASAP; strange thing there. PM is on the defense, the only focus of GG's attack. I'm wondering why both of them are like this now, if either one of them gets lynched and turns town, then where will they turn?

If you're curious about what's going to happen between them, then why are you stepping in and trying to get them to stop?

Your statements and actions are at odds with each other.

And saying you are town, that has me doubting by your first action here.

That's not what he said. He said he needs to work on his town game, which is different than saying he's town.

Why are you reading into that so much?

Yep, you're scum. You can't even remember who you were questioning.

You're misreading that, by the way.

GlyphGryph, for pressure.

[Orangebottle]

It is how you worded a pressure vote. That is what caught my eye. And saying you are town, that has me doubting by your first action here.

You pressure voted Dariush in a way that made it sound like you really wanted to lynch him, for meta or not, I don't know.

Hate to break it to you, but that's the whole point of the pressure vote. I wanted Dariush to think that I wanted to lynch him, as to make him nervous. They can also serve the purpose of getting people to answer your questions.

How does my saying that I'm town cause doubt?

PPE: Fixed how? You re-directed the quote to your own post, which was already stated. Or you just wanted to point out that Ottofar posted that?

I didn't think it was clear enough that that question was directed at Ottofar.

[Leafsnail]

Leaf: Uh, I wasn't right in the head when I phrased that post. What I meant by contradiction was that in space of several lines he supported the shortening and asked why... somebody was felt the need to shorten. What I meant by my second argument was: he accused PM of focusing solely on his defence and doing nothing else, while in the same time he (GG) was tunnelling PM and doing nothing else.

That makes more sense.

Not intentionally, gonna have to apologize for that. I've been slightly busy for about a week, and I usually post too little. Gonna try and change it now. I don't make much yet, I'll be back soon.

Good to know.  Unvote for now, but know that I'll keep my eye on you and will lynch you if you're actually lurking.  Or if it comes to claim time and you were lying earlier in your post.

McArathos. Why are you giving yourself an excuse to vote Ottofar for lurking here? "Oh, I don't know his meta, so I'm just really gonna have to vote him until he does something." No questions to him, no questions to anyone else, just an easy bandwagon vote with a personal excuse to why your vote's more justified than anyone else's.

Hey now.  If you're going to criticise someone for attacking lurkers, you should be attacking me, who suggested going after them aggressively.  But I guess I seem like a scarier target than McArathos, huh?  You wouldn't just be able to put a vote on me and forget about it in the same way as you might with McArathos.

GlyphGryph, for pressure.

Why tell him it's for pressure?  Surely doing that instantly deflates any pressure that the vote might have had.

Incidentally, Tiruin:

Toaster/Mod: Is it right to infer the roles in this game based on the flavor you've put? Or you aren't telling?

Why ask this question?  As far as I can tell it has no possible benefit other than rolefishing.  Unless you're suggesting that Toaster would be dropping hints as to who the mafia is in his flavour, which would be weird since Toaster hasn't mentioned anyone in his flavour.

@Urist I.: I do remember who I'm questioning, Orangebottle. I'm just not giving other reasons on why I said I'm waiting as it may tip off the scum to my plan.

Reaaaallly?  You better explain this brilliant plan that the scum absolutely can't know that involves you saying you're waiting at some point.  And also why telling the scum you have a plan is acceptable (surely if you had one you'd want to keep it secret - flaunting the existence of one just seems like a way to avoid having to explain your actions).

[Jim Groovester]

GlyphGryph, for pressure.

Why tell him it's for pressure?  Surely doing that instantly deflates any pressure that the vote might have had.

I'm telling everyone else it's for pressure.

I want an answer to my question and until he does, I will vote for him, even if this takes me through the end of the day.

His freakout has gotten me suspicious, so even if I don't get an answer to my question I won't be too sorrowful about it.

[IronyOwl]

McArathos. Why are you giving yourself an excuse to vote Ottofar for lurking here? "Oh, I don't know his meta, so I'm just really gonna have to vote him until he does something." No questions to him, no questions to anyone else, just an easy bandwagon vote with a personal excuse to why your vote's more justified than anyone else's.

Hey now.  If you're going to criticise someone for attacking lurkers, you should be attacking me, who suggested going after them aggressively.  But I guess I seem like a scarier target than McArathos, huh?  You wouldn't just be able to put a vote on me and forget about it in the same way as you might with McArathos.

I liked your attack on Otto, though. It had a clear goal beyond bandwagoning an easy target, and wasn't accompanied by a halfassed excuse for why it was super important for you personally to do this.

[Tiruin]

I'm just not giving other reasons on why I said I'm waiting as it may tip off the scum to my plan.

Better be an awesome fucking plan when you do explain it, then.

You also sound nervous, why is that?

Hm, I do look like I sound nervous, but I'm not. Just giving a detailed explanation so some misconceptions on my words can be cleared and my meaning might be given correctly.

@Jim Groovester

Spoiler: This seems to contradict what you're saying on Orangebottle (click to show/hide)

And saying you are town, that has me doubting by your first action here.

That's not what he said. He said he needs to work on his town game, which is different than saying he's town.

Why are you reading into that so much?

What is it that you're waiting for?

Your answer, Orangebottle. And by practicing 'your town-game', you're outright saying you're town or you may be scum subtly putting that in?

And yes, I'm saying that I'm town. Is that a problem?

I'm trying to get them to stop as from where I see it, there is nothing to be gained on both sides but a shift of thought on why the other is scummy or not. Both have not contributed to scumhunting, replying to each other would do.

But on the spoiler above, Are you defending a claimed townie?

@Orangebottle: The way you worded it doesn't make it seem all town-like. That is what I saw wrong with it, I don't think a person can get nervous by a vote that has no reason other than "Let's lynch this guy!" written as the reason. I'm unsure when you said 'PPE: PM is a ninja' was in jest, or just based on your observation.

@Leafsnail: You got my question wrong, I am not rolefishing. Just making sure that the 'commando' meant town and 'ninja' meant scum. Nothing more, nothing less. I was just wondering if the flavor had any effect.

My plan? Part of which is to get everyone talking, which only some are doing. Most of which I've already said in my past posts.

[Orangebottle]

@Orangebottle: The way you worded it doesn't make it seem all town-like. That is what I saw wrong with it, I don't think a person can get nervous by a vote that has no reason other than "Let's lynch this guy!" written as the reason.

Not much I can do about it not seeming town-like.

I'm unsure when you said 'PPE: PM is a ninja' was in jest, or just based on your observation.

That was a joke.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Jim:

Yep, you're scum. You can't even remember who you were questioning.

You're misreading that, by the way.

So I was. I'm curious though - why did you assume I was simply misreading and not something more nefarious in nature?

Tiruin: I forgot that Dariush had asked you a question. I thought that it was the other way around and that you were waiting for an answer from him. That said, you are getting rather jumpy. It's almost as if you're scared.

@Jim Groovester
<ctrl-x>
But on the spoiler above, Are you defending a claimed townie?

Why are you asking an obvious softball question?

I'm unsure when you said 'PPE: PM is a ninja' was in jest, or just based on your observation.

There was alt text. Much like an xkcd strip, it contained half the joke.

My plan? Part of which is to get everyone talking, which only some are doing. Most of which I've already said in my past posts.

And the whole thing was? You're giving vague non-answers.

[webadict]

GlyphGryph, for pressure.

Uncharacteristic of you, Jimothy.

[Jim Groovester]

I'm trying to get them to stop as from where I see it, there is nothing to be gained on both sides but a shift of thought on why the other is scummy or not. Both have not contributed to scumhunting, replying to each other would do.

And why would a shift in thought about who's scummy in the argument be a bad thing? The whole point of the game of mafia is to find scum, so if in the process of arguing one of them discovers a convincing argument that shows the other is scum, how would that be a problem? Why is that worth stopping?

Is it worth stopping? Because that would mean that both of them are town, in which case it actually is pointless for them to argue, but only from the position of somebody who's already knowledgeable about the makeup of the game and already knows who's town and scum. I.E., scum.

The more you explain it, the more it makes me think you're scum, but scum who doesn't know that you shouldn't try to stop an argument just to look like a good and helpful townie.

This seems to contradict what you're saying on Orangebottle

I guess you're right.

But on the spoiler above, Are you defending a claimed townie?

No.

If I ask you a question, it's about you.

So I was. I'm curious though - why did you assume I was simply misreading and not something more nefarious in nature?

Because it was an obvious mistake that if you had noticed you wouldn't have made. I'd have more of a problem with it if your whole attack on Tiruin was based on it (and even more of one if you hadn't backed off of it), but you have other reasons I think are reasonable enough.

What exactly are you FOSing me for? I can't tell what you're getting at.

GlyphGryph, for pressure.

Uncharacteristic of you, Jimothy.

Not really.

[GlyphGryph]

Sorry, basically been partying since Friday night. Had barely enough time to get on and read a couple posts, definitely not enough time to write anything worth reading. Though I would like to start be noting that PM still hasn't responded to my last post - he's gone from being overly defensive to lurking as soon as people put pressure on his attacker. Despite having some scummy fucking targets to choose from at this point, my vote is staying on him till he does some actual scumhunting of his own.

GlyphGryph: Tunnel less, hunt more. Also, I didn't think much of it at the time, but:
[...]
Why did you wait to vote Powder Miner?

Notice it was only 10 minutes apart - I didn't wait so much as I forgot, and added the pressure vote when I remembered.

And "tunneling" is hunting - you pressure someone until you are sure one way or the other, and use the reactions of others to decide on your next target. (I wouldn't mind knowing your definition of tunneling, though - Is Webadict tunneling as well, for example? Because by the time I had this accusation leveled against me, it seems quite a few people had only primarily responded to one person). Meanwhile, I have asked questions of other people, and noted other responses I didn't like - so really, is the problem that you don't like me focusing on someone, or simply that my posts are too long? Because if you actually think I'm tunnelling, I'd like to know why. Also, keep in mind that PM never actually responded to my last post.

I've noticed the only one you've been hounding was Powder Miner, why so? And the need for ASAP answers?

First part: Because I wanted to know if he was scum, and I didn't like his initial response. . Second part: Because the less time he has to craft, edit, and review his response, the more likely he is to leave tells that will let me decide one way or another. It's called pressure - since you have made pressure votes yourself, surely you're familiar with the concept of pressure being a useful tool?

[GlyphGryph]

Tiruin, you still haven't actually explained why my having a night role would lead to a shorten, why you voted someone you suspected of having a power role rather than someone you suspected of being scum (you managed to ask multiple questions, so really its a question of where your priorities lay, exactly.), or why you think PM is town (despite it being commented on, and you posting afterwards).

[Tiruin]

Now I see many are already suspecting me of being scum.

@IronyOwl, Leafsnail and Urist I.: What is up with my stating of a plan that got you all caught up on it? Why would you want me explaining it-- to save me from the lynch because it may seem like a last-ditch opportunity? That is how I interpreted your statements about it.

I'm not nervous or afraid. I'm not afraid of the lynch nor am I any role that would benefit of such. If any of you expect me to back away because of fear, well, I'm proving that wrong.

I'm pretty well sure everyone else here has a plan, I just stated that I have one openly. And, no; I'm not using that statement as a scapegoat to imitate activity, but to see how many are actually hunting scum. Jumping on the guy who did state he has a plan sounds strange for those who say they are scumhunting.

Besides, if I was scum, why would I even state any of that when I would have a chat channel with them or expose myself just like this? I'm only acting on what I see.

Jim Groovester: I know that I seem like scum right now, but let me make this clear. What was going on between GG and PM seemed to me to be two people bickering on every little detail on each other's posts. I read it all, to say the least. It did not help anyone except the two, in my opinion.

Currently, I have no other answer to why I was stepping in, just whatever I said before and this: A feeling that either both are town and are wasting their efforts other than getting attention on the real scum or that their actions are hiding scum due to the attention. Does it makes me seem like scum because I'm following my intuition when many are being vague themselves? (Other than the scum know town thing).

On why I'm reading into it so much, he (Orangebottle) just stated he is town followed by a strange way of RVS'ing. I'm not sure why everyone else doesn't find that strange.

@GryphGlyph: Scum can have PR's and I'm taking the possibility of a Third Party here. And your explanation for your own shorten is in another thread. Before that, I thought that a shorten = has a night action. Especially your post at the very start, like you don't want to scumhunt thoroughly, other than your want of responses from everyone else.

That was a pressure vote on you, since I didn't say before. How would that make me suspicious?

Also, apologies as I already thought I posted this, I think PM is town because of how he worded his utter defense against whatever you said GG, most of his posts don't sound like one who has any outside information. Just like being new to this type of Mafia.

Think0028: Lurking?

[webadict]

Tiruin, you still haven't actually explained why my having a night role would lead to a shorten, why you voted someone you suspected of having a power role rather than someone you suspected of being scum (you managed to ask multiple questions, so really its a question of where your priorities lay, exactly.), or why you think PM is town (despite it being commented on, and you posting afterwards).

Please stop wasting everyone's time with dumb questions.

Your first question is only answerable by you. The second one would be a nice question if it wasn't followed by parenthetical attachments, because, as we know, it's incredibly scummy to ask a question like that without reference. The third question is boring and TOTALLY NEEDED EXPLAINING THANK YOU PARENTHESES.

It's blatantly obvious that you're scum. I'm wondering why you were so busy power-tunneling PM that you were unaware of these things as they hit you at the beginning. Did you forget that being aggressive also means being smart?

Why is it you try every possible defense in the book on me? Instead of straight-up playing like someone town, you're just going for being super aggressive. It has definitely shown your progress here.