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[Orangebottle]

But in any case there's no point in lynching you today because, whatever your alignment, you claiming this has completely locked the mafia down for tonight.

"Wjatever your alignmet" != "You are town"

Hence why I underlined "There's no point in lynching you today."
There's always a point in lynching scum.  That's how town wins. Since he stated that there's no point in lynching me, he knows I am town. He then throws in,"Whatever your alignment" to buddy me and make it look like he doesn't know, and complains about me locking down the mafia.

So you are saying, were he to agree with me, he would only be parotting me?

I want to hear him say his reason for it, not yours. It'd be a hell of a lot less believable if he said yours, because I'd think he was parroting.
Essentially, yes.

I'm an unredirectable, unblockable watcher with a oneshot that essentially watches everyone.
And you don't want to keep my alive.
What's wrong with this picture?

And why wouldn't I want to use my abilities?

I think I read you saying so. Can't find the relevant post, though.

I said I wouldn't be able to, because I'm about to be lynched.
That's probably what you mean.

[Dariush]

Now would you like to explain why your FoS of Dariush isn't an OMGUS?

Oh, it totally is. A very valid OMGUS. In one post he went from not voting me to,"FUCK YOU GO DIE!" because he has no actual suspicions, yet he needs to look town to avoid being suspected.

Oh wow, you sure know how to lie properly, you scumfuckingbag. Except not really. First of all, I stopped being satisfied with your answers due to rolefishing since my first post in the game and then you pulled up some hipocrisy to cover yourself and THEN you went all preemptive defence on our heads while citing your town meta, and THEN you OMGUS'd me. And then you lied. My hands itch to pothole one of those 'then's to the Running Gag page on TvTropes.

Also, he never answered my question.

The answer is the same as to ECF's - I don't know what I'm going to do in the night at the beginning of the day, and go fuck yourself anyway, I won't tell you whom not to kill tonight, scum.

[Powder Miner]

Toaster. I am afraid of the night kills. But not because I'm afraid of dying. I'm unkillable.
However, if you guys "predetermine" the shots nicely into town, and we lynch a town, that puts us down to 8/13. Assuming there are 3 scum, that's MyLo right there.
5 townies is 2 more than 3 scum, and with no more killing roles, we have MyLo with eight people. And MyLo with more people is worse- more targets for the scum to throw into the noose and win.
Let's not do the "hurr kill everyone" plan, please. No easy win for scum.

[Ottofar]

Shakerag - RB, 1-shot kill, 50% non-kill action resistance.

ECrownOfFire - RB, 1-shot kill, every action delayed.

Powder Miner - Delayer, 1-shot disable for a cycle, unkillable.

OrangeBottle - Watcher, Can see what happened to whom a given night, Unredirectable and -blockable

Darvi - powerless, "I assume something happens when I get dipped in magma."

Leafsnail - Can perform an ability of a dead player randomly. 1-shot uses a 1-shot from a dead player, non-randomly. Auto ability is picked from a dead player every morning.

Webadict - Makes target immune to blocks, redirects and randomizations during night, didn't claim the 1-shot, all actions have 50% chance of failing.

Dariush - Target can't be blocked or redirected, Can send a mod PM telling someone he's town, Kills the last person to vote him or the one that kills him.

Ottofar - RB, 1-shot  four people redirect, sees who targeted him.

Jack A T - Doc, 1-shot hide, sees who targeted him.

Toaster - Heroic Guard, Gets a number of killers once, RB immune.

Urist Imiknorris - Redirecter, 1-shot kill, one of the voters suicides when lynched.

MysteriousBluePuppet - Copies a player's action on the player. Redirects everyone targeting him to someone. Killer is revealed next day.


Darvi, I did vote for OrangeBottle, so yeah. Also in a hurry I was. So yeah.
Leafers, we'll see what we'll see.

Votecount please?

[Leafsnail]

Spoiler: Response to Urist Imiknorris (click to show/hide)

...No, fuck you. Mass murder is not the answer, and I won't be wasting my kill unless I'm damn certain the target's scum.

Why don't you want the town to decide who dies?  I'll say it again - if we don't kill, we'll either lose the kills (which means the mafia get to decide who dies more) or mafia will be able to use their kills to finish the town off.  Shooting night one with one-shot vigs is mafia 101.

You're forgetting the long-term consequences of killing three easy (mis)lynches - they don't have a chance to clear themselves and scum don't have a chance to slip up when trying to mislynch/bus them. Also it brings us a day and a half closer to LyLo if we all hit town (which is far too likely for my tastes).

Actually, they have plenty of chance to defend themselves if we decide publically, today, who is going to die.  Far more than the chance you don't want to give them by killing someone who you are "sure of".  Just as much chance to defend themselves as the person being lynched.

The thing about lylo is stupid too.  If we lynch and hit town, we bring ourselves a day closer to lylo!!  On the other hand, there's absolutely no way to kill scum without risking going one day further into lylo.  But under this plan, we get to decide 3 targets while risking 1.5 days of lylo, while if we just lynched those 3 people we'd be risking 3 days of lylo due to mafiakills.

I mean, your viewpoint makes sense if and ONLY if you don't think we should ever lynch either.

Yes there is - we've only got one shot each, and I refuse to waste it on someone I'm not sure of.

You seem to have mistaken reasserting your position without argument for an argument.

I see you're going after people whose roles would benefit scum. Could it possibly be because you want to use their abilities, Leafsnail?

Not "people whose roles benefit scum".  More "people whose roles almost certainly are scum or at least 3rd party since they'd be broken in the hands of town".

And since we've massclaimed I can't covertly use their abilities anyway.  Since, y'know, everyone would know I did.

Spoiler: Response to Orangebottle's complete inability to play mafia (click to show/hide)

Summary: mislynch a townie, then kill five more and win for the scum. I say five because the scum are almost guaranteed to be using their kills.

"Kills"?  Mafia tend to get one group kill.  I think this is what you call a scumslip, Mr Serial Killer.

In any case, if you use your ability, no, neither the mafia nor any serial killers such as yourself will be able to kill, because you'll just need to look at whose action is missing, then lynch them (example: let's say that webadict decided to go against the plan and kill.  You'd just look at the list and see that his "Make targets immune to blocks, redirects and randomizations" is missing from the list.  Then we lynch him).

If the user of the oneshot doesn't have anyone who is obvscum in their mind, they're probably going to hit town. If any of them are scum, they're going to use it on the town anyway.

The town.

Will decide.

Who gets killed.

In advance.

Yes?  Understood?  Read what I just said again in case it didn't sink in.  They are as likely to hit town as the lynch is.  What we have been given is effectively 4 day one lynches before the mafia has a chance to off the good players.  Even if we miss, at least we got those mislynches out of the way without the mafia getting a chance to snipe the towniest person in the night.

The mafia one-shoots would shoot town... UNLESS we tell them who they have to shoot in advance.  In that case if we choose scum they can either kill their partner or get lynched for not killing their partner.

Your plan included none of these, and it was a horrible plan. Feel free to come up with a better one while you get lynched.

That was just one element of the plan, idiot.  The whole point of a massclaim is that you make an overall plan.

I don't know how to respond to this. BSER - Paranormal is not an easy comparison to make; there are far too many differences between the two. To name a couple:
Paranormal's roles are listed in the main topic.
Think isn't Mephansteras.

That comparison was not the main part of the argument.  The main part was that it would be TOO DAMN POWERFUL AND EASY TO USE AS A TOWNIE.

There was no room for misinterpretation at all. I specifically claimed that I'd see the action and the target. You're also stating a blatant falsehood. Scum can kill in the night I use it.

Scum can kill, but you would immediately know who it was (since everyone has a night action and you have a list of all the night actions performed, just see whose night action isn't on the list and they were the one killing).

But in any case there's no point in lynching you today because, whatever your alignment, you claiming this has completely locked the mafia down for tonight.  Heck, if you die sometime I could even use your ability again to leave the mafia completely helpless for another night.

Hey there buddy. Did you really think that'd get me off your back, scum? See, I know that you already knew that I was town. You stated it right here. From your point of view, how is it impossible that I'm fakeclaiming scum? You've been avoiding my bandwagon ever since I claimed, probably to distance yourself from my mislynch.

I didn't say you were town in that quote.  In fact, I think you're probably scum.  But your claim means that scum can't kill, regardless of your alignment (since you'll have to use your ability tonight, and you won't be able to lie about the result of your ability without clashing with someone), so there's no point in lynching you today.

Hence why I underlined "There's no point in lynching you today."
There's always a point in lynching scum.  That's how town wins. Since he stated that there's no point in lynching me, he knows I am town. He then throws in,"Whatever your alignment" to buddy me and make it look like he doesn't know, and complains about me locking down the mafia.

My god.

You are SO UNBELIEVABLY STUPID.  That fact is pretty undeniable whatever your alignment too.

I'm saying that there's no point in lynching you today.  Because if you're scum you'll have to honestly use your ability if we make a plan (I have a feeling this is why you're against making a plan) and thus lockdown the scumteam.

Tomorrow?  Yes, we can lynch your scummy ass to hell then.  But not today.

However, if you guys "predetermine" the shots nicely into town, and we lynch a town, that puts us down to 8/13. Assuming there are 3 scum, that's MyLo right there.

The town can choose the targets of the kills.  Again, it's just like lynching, except we can do it 4 times in a row without the mafia being able to kill between them.

[Powder Miner]

Still though, with one mafiakill which I forgot to put into my calculations, which, if we don't hit town, would put us into LyLo.
Lynching comes with a daygame. Blindly setting us to My/LyLo with three NKs and a Mafiakill doesn't.

[Powder Miner]

Correction, if we don't hit scum. I think I confused myself.

[Leafsnail]

You could say the same about lynching.  If we lynch townies 4 times in a row we lose.  But lynching is the only way to hit scum.  In other words, we take the risk because it's better than the 100% chance that the mafia will hit town in the night.

The only reason I can think of to not kill people tonight is if we run out of time today and can't extend anymore (although usually we can just keep extending).  In that case, we definitely 100% fire off the shots on the next day after we've worked out the targets.

[Powder Miner]

We wouldn't have time to lynch townies four times in a row. We'd be dead by then except we'd probably have used the daygame to take care of scum.
I like how you forgot that point.
And I couldn't say the same about lynching. Because that's several days and nights. If you do this, we're likely put into Mylo, LyLo, or near-MyLo in the essential beginning stages of the game. This would be a very advantageous point for scum.
The only reason I can think of to kill people is if the mafia are all confirmed mafia. And even then miller-ness makes that iffy.

In a supernatural mafia I watched, a similar deal to this went off near the end of the game. A deal with the devil ended in three people vanishing, a kill being used, and that made the SK win. They thought it could all work out and that killing everyone would inevitably kill all the threats. So they tried. And they failed. And even then that was end the endgame with considerably more information and with (I think) less resistance being put up to the plan. The fact that you're trying to push a massacre N1 with plenty of reasoning against it makes me very suspicious of you Leafsnail.

[Orangebottle]

Summary: mislynch a townie, then kill five more and win for the scum. I say five because the scum are almost guaranteed to be using their kills.

"Kills"?  Mafia tend to get one group kill.  I think this is what you call a scumslip, Mr Serial Killer.

Lolno. I'm running under the assumption that the scum is just as powerful, if not moreso, than the town.
Besides, that scumslip doesn't point to me being a serial killer. Even I know that, and you're much better at this game than I. Why are you so reluctant to call me scum?

In any case, if you use your ability, no, neither the mafia nor any serial killers will be able to kill, because you'll just need to look at whose action is missing, then lynch them (example: let's say that webadict decided to go against the plan and kill.  You'd just look at the list and see that his "Make targets immune to blocks, redirects and randomizations" is missing from the list.  Then we lynch him).

I get that.

The town.

Will decide.

Who gets killed.

In advance.

Yes?  Understood?  Read what I just said again in case it didn't sink in.  They are as likely to hit town as the lynch is.  What we have been given is effectively 4 day one lynches before the mafia has a chance to off the good players.  Even if we miss, at least we got those mislynches out of the way without the mafia getting a chance to snipe the towniest person in the night.

The mafia one-shoots would shoot town... UNLESS we tell them who they have to shoot in advance.  In that case if we choose scum they can either kill their partner or get lynched for not killing their partner.

There was no room for misinterpretation at all. I specifically claimed that I'd see the action and the target. You're also stating a blatant falsehood. Scum can kill in the night I use it.

Scum can kill, but you would immediately know who it was (since everyone has a night action and you have a list of all the night actions performed, just see whose night action isn't on the list and they were the one killing).

Let's see here.
-We have a doctor and a bodyguard.
-We have multiple roleblockers/delayers, at least one is scum.
-You can't use my oneshot until after I'm dead.
-Scum blocks/delays the doctor and bodyguard, then kills me.
-Scum doesn't have to worry about the claim in the morning.

There's also the same situation if I get lynched, except with you as the target.

Hey there buddy. Did you really think that'd get me off your back, scum? See, I know that you already knew that I was town. You stated it right here. From your point of view, how is it impossible that I'm fakeclaiming scum? You've been avoiding my bandwagon ever since I claimed, probably to distance yourself from my mislynch.

I didn't say you were town in that quote.  In fact, I think you're probably scum.  But your claim means that scum can't kill, regardless of your alignment (since you'll have to use your ability tonight, and you won't be able to lie about the result of your ability without clashing with someone), so there's no point in lynching you today.

I have a question.
If I'm scum, what would I gain from claiming this oneshot?
What do I lose?

I'm saying that there's no point in lynching you today.  Because if you're scum you'll have to honestly use your ability if we make a plan (I have a feeling this is why you're against making a plan) and thus lockdown the scumteam.

That's not why I'm against making a plan at all. Perhaps you should read more. I've already said something about that.
Also, nobody seems to agree with you as far as not lynching me. Good luck with that.

[Orangebottle]

Also yeah, as far as Darvi's concerned, let's avoid killing or lynching him.
If you've ever played all the way to hardmode in terraria, you'd know exactly why.

[Darvi]

Lolno. I'm running under the assumption that the scum is just as powerful, if not moreso, than the town.

There is no reason to believe that scum is more powerful than town. Their main advantage is knowing who's on their team and who's not.

Besides, with all the roleblockers and redirectors around, chances that the scum will even get near you are slim.

Besides, that scumslip doesn't point to me being a serial killer. Even I know that, and you're much better at this game than I. Why are you so reluctant to call me scum?

Technically, SK's are scum too.

But yeah I kinda wanna know that too.

In any case, if you use your ability, no, neither the mafia nor any serial killers will be able to kill, because you'll just need to look at whose action is missing, then lynch them (example: let's say that webadict decided to go against the plan and kill.  You'd just look at the list and see that his "Make targets immune to blocks, redirects and randomizations" is missing from the list.  Then we lynch him).

I get that.

So y u no want to cooperate?

Let's see here.
-We have a doctor and a bodyguard.
-We have multiple roleblockers/delayers, at least one is scum.
-You can't use my oneshot until after I'm dead.
-Scum blocks/delays the doctor and bodyguard, then kills me.
-Scum doesn't have to worry about the claim in the morning.

There's also the same situation if I get lynched, except with you as the target.

As I stated previously, if we assign the abilities correctly, you have a very good chance of surviving. And even if you don't, chances are that any mafia 1-shot kills would be gone by then and then LS can pick up where you started. At which point we can attempt to confirm or deny his roleclaim.

I have a question.
If I'm scum, what would I gain from claiming this oneshot?
What do I lose?

It's called blackmail. "Hey guys, don't lynch me because I have this awesome one-shot that you wouldn't want to lose."

Because you still didn't tell me why you revealed it in the first place

That's not why I'm against making a plan at all. Perhaps you should read more. I've already said something about that.
Also, nobody seems to agree with you as far as not lynching me. Good luck with that.

If you really do agree to use your oneshot then I agree with letting you live. Then we can lynch you next day.

[Orangebottle]

Lolno. I'm running under the assumption that the scum is just as powerful, if not moreso, than the town.

There is no reason to believe that scum is more powerful than town. Their main advantage is knowing who's on their team and who's not.

Besides, with all the roleblockers and redirectors around, chances that the scum will even get near you are slim.

One or more of those roleblockers/redirectors are scum. Imiknorris's logic regarding that is safe enough.

Also, that assumption comes from the last BYO. While it's not an accurate comparison, the scum had a multikill(Killed the target, the target's target, and everyone targeting their target), a limited multikill(Killed the target and any doctors targeting their target), and a combined untrackable godfather/friendly neighbor.

So y u no want to cooperate?

Because I think KILL EVERYONE LOLOLOL is a terrible idea.
I don't remember saying I wouldn't use my oneshot.

Let's see here.
-We have a doctor and a bodyguard.
-We have multiple roleblockers/delayers, at least one is scum.
-You can't use my oneshot until after I'm dead.
-Scum blocks/delays the doctor and bodyguard, then kills me.
-Scum doesn't have to worry about the claim in the morning.

There's also the same situation if I get lynched, except with you as the target.

As I stated previously, if we assign the abilities correctly, you have a very good chance of surviving. And even if you don't, chances are that any mafia 1-shot kills would be gone by then and then LS can pick up where you started. At which point we can attempt to confirm or deny his roleclaim.

True.

I have a question.
If I'm scum, what would I gain from claiming this oneshot?
What do I lose?

It's called blackmail. "Hey guys, don't lynch me because I have this awesome one-shot that you wouldn't want to lose."

Okay. How about that second question, then? What would I lose?

Because you still didn't tell me why you revealed it in the first place

What, confusion regarding my reasons for objecting to the massclaim, and "I'm about to be lynched" aren't reasons enough for you?

That's not why I'm against making a plan at all. Perhaps you should read more. I've already said something about that.
Also, nobody seems to agree with you as far as not lynching me. Good luck with that.

If you really do agree to use your oneshot then I agree with letting you live. Then we can lynch you next day.

This actually makes for a good part of a plan. I just don't like the shit about using up a bunch of our oneshots on day one to kill people who aren't guaranteed to be scum.
I'll still be using it tonight, regardless of what goes through(Well, I can't use it if I'm dead).

[Darvi]

One or more of those roleblockers/redirectors are scum. Imiknorris's logic regarding that is safe enough.

Which is why we're gonna keep them busy. If we tell a roleblocker to block player X, and player X doesn't blocked, then we know the blocker's scum. If player X does get blocked, then the doc's got nothing to keep them from protecting. Same goes for redirectors.

Actually, we have wuba and Dariush. They can assist Jack, confirming their actions, while protecting you.

Also, that assumption comes from the last BYO. While it's not an accurate comparison, the scum had a multikill(Killed the target, the target's target, and everyone targeting their target), a limited multikill(Killed the target and any doctors targeting their target), and a combined untrackable godfather/friendly neighbor.

Yeah. I remember how much that helped you guys. We found all of them except for you and you wouldn't be lynched because all that was left were useless wastes of space and SK-Jim.

Okay. How about that second question, then? What would I lose?

Exactly nothing. You'd be lynched for failing to deliver.

What are you trying to gain from these questions? Because none of the answers make you less scummy.

What, confusion regarding my reasons for objecting to the massclaim, and "I'm about to be lynched" aren't reasons enough for you?

Just checkin'. Because that second reason is hella scummy.

This actually makes for a good part of a plan. I just don't like the shit about using up a bunch of our oneshots on day one to kill people who aren't guaranteed to be scum.
I'll still be using it tonight, regardless of what goes through(Well, I can't use it if I'm dead).

I personally am fine with killing people who are prone to lurking or otherwise triggering false positives straight away. Because what if you don't use them that way? You keep on to them and then either die use them on those people who would be lynched anyway.

Also, the prospect of maybe getting to mylo and wasting all of scumteam's extra kills sounds like a better situation than reaching mylo the usual way only to be fucked over at that point.

[Powder Miner]

I will point out that you found Andrew out when he tripped up with a mispelling of a fake ability during the massclaim. During the day. I think we found the other one we killed as well via day, not night. Rushing in and killing everyone we can is stupid.

Also, don't tell everyone what to do with their roles. Rigid plans are easily broken and very easily exploitable if t he planner is scum.