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[Darvi]

Neat idea.

Of course, both the blockers and blockees should not claim who got blocked until after whoever used absolutely everywhere, to prevent them from fakeclaiming.

[Leafsnail]

Or we decide it all in advance.  I'm not mapping it out now since it's really late, but I'm pretty sure we can stop the mafia from doing anything other than follow the plan.

[Urist Imiknorris]

So... we have 3 one-shot killers claimed (Shakerag, ECrownofFire, Urist Imiknorris), and me, who can reuse a one-shot kill.  I'm thinking we should fire off these kills tonight, and I'll use my one-shot for a kill as soon as possible too.  That should give us a headstart over the mafia in terms of kills (ie we can slaughter scummy/ useless people) and prevent lylo breaking.  I feel like we might be able to pretty much lock down the mafia from killing too.

...No, fuck you. Mass murder is not the answer, and I won't be wasting my kill unless I'm damn certain the target's scum.

For one thing, we don't know who is scum and who isn't. We're far more likely to hit town than scum with these oneshot kills. Useless people still have a function: they prevent scum from winning. Townies aren't machines; we're human. We make mistakes and can also drop scumtells, and be seen as scummy. So you want all of our oneshot kills to be used on targets that could also be town. This would be a waste of three oneshots.

...What?  Under this logic, we shouldn't lynch either.  We should lynch the person we think is scummiest, then shoot the 3 people we think are next scummiest.  Otherwise we're just throwing the decision over to the mafia, who will kill someone who is 100% town and the person they want eliminated most.  Summary: Kill on a person who most of the town thinks is scum vs kill on the person the mafia wants dead most.

You're forgetting the long-term consequences of killing three easy (mis)lynches - they don't have a chance to clear themselves and scum don't have a chance to slip up when trying to mislynch/bus them. Also it brings us a day and a half closer to LyLo if we all hit town (which is far too likely for my tastes).

There's no reason to hold onto these kills - they could be lost when the person dies or used to break lylo if the person is a mafia member.

Yes there is - we've only got one shot each, and I refuse to waste it on someone I'm not sure of.

Orangebottle: Your one-shot is ridiculous (tells you who the mafia is) and clearly can't belong to a townie.  What is your alignment?

Ottofar - Boy, that's a nice scum role.  Very disruptive and rolefishy.  I wonder if you're gonna actually do anything today other than be passive and bandwagon?

I see you're going after people whose roles would benefit scum. Could it possibly be because you want to use their abilities, Leafsnail?

Darvi: You're untrackable scum, aren't you?

[Darvi]

Nope.

[Orangebottle]

For one thing, we don't know who is scum and who isn't. We're far more likely to hit town than scum with these oneshot kills. Useless people still have a function: they prevent scum from winning. Townies aren't machines; we're human. We make mistakes and can also drop scumtells, and be seen as scummy. So you want all of our oneshot kills to be used on targets that could also be town. This would be a waste of three oneshots.

...What?  Under this logic, we shouldn't lynch either.  We should lynch the person we think is scummiest, then shoot the 3 people we think are next scummiest.  Otherwise we're just throwing the decision over to the mafia, who will kill someone who is 100% town and the person they want eliminated most.  Summary: Kill on a person who most of the town thinks is scum vs kill on the person the mafia wants dead most.

Summary: mislynch a townie, then kill five more and win for the scum. I say five because the scum are almost guaranteed to be using their kills. We have one person who is definitely scum(You), and one who everybody else thinks is scum(me). If any kills are used, they should be on you for making this stupid plan.

There's no reason to hold onto these kills - they could be lost when the person dies or used to break lylo if the person is a mafia member.

If the user of the oneshot doesn't have anyone who is obvscum in their mind, they're probably going to hit town. If any of them are scum, they're going to use it on the town anyway.

Furthermore, that doesn't keep scum from killing at all. It just makes it so they don't need to kill as much.

That particular plan doesn't.  The fact that we have a tonne of roleblockers, redirecters and other disrupters does.

Your plan included none of these, and it was a horrible plan. Feel free to come up with a better one while you get lynched.

I'm town. My oneshot tells me which actions affected which targets. It says nothing about who performed them, so I'll send Think a PM for verification. Only scum would be worried about the ability you thought I had, Leafsnail.

I'm not "worried" about your role, and I never said anything remotely to that effect.  I can just see that it's far too good for a townie to have.  It's like how the Exterminator Alien can have access to Intel in Paranormal, but that information would clearly be broken in the hands of a town player.  I guess I don't know much about Think's modding, but this ability just seems like a very cheap way to net scum (since you don't even have to aim it).  So in other words, I felt like your role was one that a survivor/ serial killer might have, or else a mafia role.

I don't know how to respond to this. BSER - Paranormal is not an easy comparison to make; there are far too many differences between the two. To name a couple:
Paranormal's roles are listed in the main topic.
Think isn't Mephansteras.

I guess you clearing up the misinterpretation of it makes it a lot weaker and maybe plausible for a townie to have, but it still means that the mafia definitely cannot kill in the night you use it (because we'd just have to see whoever's action is missing and bam, that person killed (and it'd be worse if someone falseclaimed at some point).  You wouldn't be able to lie about using it either if some players had semi-randomized targets under the plan).  And if you went through with your initial decision not to claim this, that would've made it even more broken.

There was no room for misinterpretation at all. I specifically claimed that I'd see the action and the target. You're also stating a blatant falsehood. Scum can kill in the night I use it.

But in any case there's no point in lynching you today because, whatever your alignment, you claiming this has completely locked the mafia down for tonight.  Heck, if you die sometime I could even use your ability again to leave the mafia completely helpless for another night.

Hey there buddy. Did you really think that'd get me off your back, scum? See, I know that you already knew that I was town. You stated it right here. From your point of view, how is it impossible that I'm fakeclaiming scum? You've been avoiding my bandwagon ever since I claimed, probably to distance yourself from my mislynch.

This is known as blackmailing the town.  It's scummy as hell.

In any case, your rolename business for flipping your opinion of claiming is crap.  Anyone not braindead could come up with a passable fakeclaim using the exact same name.

I said some other reasons, but I can't be arsed to find them through all these walls.  I believe it was in response to Webadict or Darvi.

Assuming Leafsnail isn't lying scum, yes.
Also assuming that Leafsnail wants to use his oneshot to use my oneshot.
Also assuming that Leafsnail doesn't get killed in the middle of the night.
Also assuming Leafsnail's oneshot isn't blockable.
Gee, that's a lot of assumptions.

Every one of those assumptions minus the second applies just as much to you.  What difference does that make?

The argument was that my oneshot would never be used. If Leafsnail's fakeclaiming scum(which he most definitely is), he can't/wont use my oneshot on someone. If I'm fakeclaiming scum(which I'm not), then it would never have been used anyway. I didn't start that conversation, Imiknorris did. You should probably be asking him this question.

Leaf:  Do you think those kills targets should be predetermined so there's no wasted actioning?

What.
This guy is guaranteed to be scum.
And you're agreeing with his incredibly shitty plan.

This doesn't strike you as odd?

[Orangebottle]

EBWOP: Think has told me that I was right; my oneshot doesn't identify who takes which actions, just which actions occur and who they target.

[Toaster]

Urist I:

So... we have 3 one-shot killers claimed (Shakerag, ECrownofFire, Urist Imiknorris), and me, who can reuse a one-shot kill.  I'm thinking we should fire off these kills tonight, and I'll use my one-shot for a kill as soon as possible too.  That should give us a headstart over the mafia in terms of kills (ie we can slaughter scummy/ useless people) and prevent lylo breaking.  I feel like we might be able to pretty much lock down the mafia from killing too.

...No, fuck you. Mass murder is not the answer, and I won't be wasting my kill unless I'm damn certain the target's scum.


-SNIP-


I see you're going after people whose roles would benefit scum. Could it possibly be because you want to use their abilities, Leafsnail?

Darvi: You're untrackable scum, aren't you?

Looks like you've got two people you're confident on right there.



Orange:

This is known as blackmailing the town.  It's scummy as hell.

In any case, your rolename business for flipping your opinion of claiming is crap.  Anyone not braindead could come up with a passable fakeclaim using the exact same name.

I said some other reasons, but I can't be arsed to find them through all these walls.  I believe it was in response to Webadict or Darvi.

You mean this?

I claim Z, Darvi claims Y, Toaster claims X, and you claim W.
I claim to have sent in Y, Darvi claims to have sent in Z, Toaster claims to have sent in W, and you claim to have sent in Q. Either you or Toaster must be lying.

It makes it a hell of a lot easier to find fakeclaims.
Or my mind could just be fucking me over again and I wouldn't know otherwise.

It's pretty much the same thing and it's equally unhelpful.

Assuming Leafsnail isn't lying scum, yes.
Also assuming that Leafsnail wants to use his oneshot to use my oneshot.
Also assuming that Leafsnail doesn't get killed in the middle of the night.
Also assuming Leafsnail's oneshot isn't blockable.
Gee, that's a lot of assumptions.

Every one of those assumptions minus the second applies just as much to you.  What difference does that make?

The argument was that my oneshot would never be used. If Leafsnail's fakeclaiming scum(which he most definitely is), he can't/wont use my oneshot on someone. If I'm fakeclaiming scum(which I'm not), then it would never have been used anyway. I didn't start that conversation, Imiknorris did. You should probably be asking him this question.

I'm interested in your opinion, since you said it.

Leaf:  Do you think those kills targets should be predetermined so there's no wasted actioning?

What.
This guy is guaranteed to be scum.
And you're agreeing with his incredibly shitty plan.

This doesn't strike you as odd?

I'm questioning him over it.  If I was agreeing, I'd be either asking him what I should do or proposing a course of action.


Do you think there should be a preplanned sequence of actions?

[Darvi]

OB, learn to think before opening your mouth.

First of all, nobody thinks that LS is scum but you. For flimsy reasons, too. So he's hardly obvscum, and even less likely to be lynched.

Next, scum can use their kill, and then they'll have a hard time explaining why they targeted somebody who got murdered that night.

Next, killing people who are prone to giving false positives and lurking is something I can get behind. Otherwise we'll have them on our collective ass for the rest  of the game without knowing whether they're town or not.

Next, if you're fakeclaiming scum, then that can be easily determined by having a few guys target somebody without you knowing who. If your claim doesn't account for their actions, you're scum. If, on the other hand, you're town and don't want to use the skill anyway, then we don't have any reason to let you live anyway.

I could probably say more, but exhausted.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

It ws too late since it was 2in the morning, and i was dead tired. Also, empty.

Auto: If i get killed, killer is revealed next day
Night: Copy someone ability, and use it on them.
1shot : Everyone targeting me is redirected to my target.

[Orangebottle]

This is known as blackmailing the town.  It's scummy as hell.

In any case, your rolename business for flipping your opinion of claiming is crap.  Anyone not braindead could come up with a passable fakeclaim using the exact same name.

I said some other reasons, but I can't be arsed to find them through all these walls.  I believe it was in response to Webadict or Darvi.

You mean this?

snip

It's pretty much the same thing and it's equally unhelpful.

No, I think it was something else.

I'm interested in your opinion, since you said it.

Okay. It changes nothing.

I'm questioning him over it.  If I was agreeing, I'd be either asking him what I should do or proposing a course of action.

What do you think about his plan, then?

Do you think there should be a preplanned sequence of actions?

No.
Hear me out:
If we have a plan, it makes it easier for people to fakeclaim actions. For example, Wuba is told to use his ability on Imiknorris to make sure he hits true. Instead of doing this, Wuba kills you and claims that he used his ability on Imiknorris.

If we don't have a plan, Wuba has to have a reason for actioning Imiknorris.
PPE:

First of all, nobody thinks that LS is scum but you. For flimsy reasons, too. So he's hardly obvscum, and even less likely to be lynched.

Hmm...
Hmmmmmmm........

Leafsnail

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.......

And no, my reasons are fine. I don't remember:
-Making plans that largely benefit scum.
-Buddying.
-Knowing I'm not scum without being a daycop, and when I've been acting scummy.
being town things.

Next, scum can use their kill, and then they'll have a hard time explaining why they targeted somebody who got murdered that night.

Okay, genius. Think for a second. Who can scum kill that makes it so they wouldn't have to explain why they targeted that person that night?

Next, if you're fakeclaiming scum, then that can be easily determined by having a few guys target somebody without you knowing who. If your claim doesn't account for their actions, you're scum.

That wasn't part of Leafsnail's plan. He hadn't considered that, and thus that is invalid.

If, on the other hand, you're town and don't want to use the skill anyway, then we don't have any reason to let you live anyway.

I'm an unredirectable, unblockable watcher with a oneshot that essentially watches everyone.
And you don't want to keep my alive.
What's wrong with this picture?

[Orangebottle]

EBWOP: Making a plan that largely benefits scum.

[Darvi]

Hmm...
Hmmmmmmm........

Leafsnail

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.......

I doubt that Urist thinks that LS is obscum unless I'm colourblind.

And no, my reasons are fine. I don't remember:
-Making plans that largely benefit scum.

Wait, who said again that they were being a derp when saying that?

-Buddying.

Pic or it didn't happen.

-Knowing I'm not scum without being a daycop, and when I've been acting scummy.
being town things.

What?

Okay, genius. Think for a second. Who can scum kill that makes it so they wouldn't have to explain why they targeted that person that night?

Nobody, because we have a doc.

That wasn't part of Leafsnail's plan. He hadn't considered that, and thus that is invalid.

Fine then. It is my plan, however, rendering your argument doubly so invalid.

I'm an unredirectable, unblockable watcher with a oneshot that essentially watches everyone.
And you don't want to keep my alive.
What's wrong with this picture?

The part where you conveniently ignore the part where I said "if you don't want to use your ability anyway"

[Orangebottle]

I doubt that Urist thinks that LS is obscum unless I'm colourblind.

First of all, nobody thinks that LS is scum but you.

What?

But in any case there's no point in lynching you today because, whatever your alignment, you claiming this has completely locked the mafia down for tonight.

Okay, genius. Think for a second. Who can scum kill that makes it so they wouldn't have to explain why they targeted that person that night?

Nobody, because we have a doc.

Right. I'm running under the assumption that scum has roles that are stronger than town roles.

That wasn't part of Leafsnail's plan. He hadn't considered that, and thus that is invalid.

Fine then. It is my plan, however, rendering your argument doubly so invalid.

That would work. But it doesn't explain why Leafsnail thought I wasn't. You mentioning it first would just make him saying that parroting.

I'm an unredirectable, unblockable watcher with a oneshot that essentially watches everyone.
And you don't want to keep my alive.
What's wrong with this picture?

The part where you conveniently ignore the part where I said "if you don't want to use your ability anyway"

And why wouldn't I want to use my abilities?

[Darvi]

I doubt that Urist thinks that LS is obscum unless I'm colourblind.

First of all, nobody thinks that LS is scum but you.

Meh. I meant to say obvscum.  But eh.

But in any case there's no point in lynching you today because, whatever your alignment, you claiming this has completely locked the mafia down for tonight.

"Wjatever your alignmet" != "You are town"

Right. I'm running under the assumption that scum has roles that are stronger than town roles.

Sure. I think Think knows better than making a heroic guard even more useless.

That would work. But it doesn't explain why Leafsnail thought I wasn't. You mentioning it first would just make him saying that parroting.

So you are saying, were he to agree with me, he would only be parotting me?

I'm an unredirectable, unblockable watcher with a oneshot that essentially watches everyone.
And you don't want to keep my alive.
What's wrong with this picture?

And why wouldn't I want to use my abilities?

I think I read you saying so. Can't find the relevant post, though.

[Darvi]

You also didn't tell me where he was buddying.

And if you are so concerned about being NK'd for your ability, then why did you reveal it?