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Author Topic: Bring Someone Else's Role Mafia - Evening 7 - Everybody's Dead Book [1/13]  (Read 87749 times)

Dariush

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Dariush, if you were a jester, how and when would you try to get yourself lynched?
On D1, subtly. Overreacting to RVQuestions, obviously tunneling, rolefishing, etc.

Dariush. Let's say you're a combined Doctor-roleblocker that can perform both actions at once. Where does your protect land tonight? Your block? Why?
I'll protect someone I consider town and block someone I consider scum. Why the oddly specific question?
Toaster:How does Jack = Imiknorris? Your nervous is showing, scum.
Who are you going to use the mafia kill on tonight?

Powder Miner: That's why you're so excited right now! You drew third party. So, tell us, which third party are you?
Also this. Obvious rolefishing is obvious, OB.

Dariush and Ottofar, who would be your N1 kill if you were a vig or an SK?
Wuba because he's always scum. Also obvious rolefishing is obvious.

Jack, why were you so eager to go with the massclaim?

TolyK

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This is funny even if I don't have the roles  :D
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Darvi : Depending on how goes the game. If we have multiple killer (mafia and a few third parties) and town is getting decimed early i'd use early (think day 2-3) on my biggest suspicion, else id keep it in case of a lylo.
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Orangebottle

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Dariush. Let's say you're a combined Doctor-roleblocker that can perform both actions at once. Where does your protect land tonight? Your block? Why?
I'll protect someone I consider town and block someone I consider scum. Why the oddly specific question?
I thought I'd ask something a little more interesting this game, but in asking a specific question I wanted a specific answer. Care to provide one?
Quote
Powder Miner: That's why you're so excited right now! You drew third party. So, tell us, which third party are you?
Also this. Obvious rolefishing is obvious, OB.
Yes, because rolefishing is bad. Except, I'm rolefishing someone who I believe isn't town. Why wouldn't town be interested in the roles of other factions?
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Toaster

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Orange:  That's why I shouldn't play Mafia at night- I mashed up your response and your question got lost in the shuffle.

If I had a mafiakill, I'd use it on someone good that wasn't Web (too obvious.)  Perhaps Leafsnail or Jack, depending on how their daygames went.


Your response to Webadict reeks of OMGUS.   Since Web's reasons for trying to "force through a massclaim" are "awful", what would be a good reason for a D1 massclaim?


Shakerag:  Why'd you wait until you got pressure on your vote to remove it?


Webadict:  I can see what you're going after, but you'll pardon me if I'm a little skeptical.  You didn't see it worth asking the opinions of others of a massclaim?


Dariush:  Why are the person you would vig and the person you are voting not the same person?  That is not a townie behavior.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Orangebottle

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Your response to Webadict reeks of OMGUS.
And? When two people suspect eachother, OMGUS tends to happen. It's not even the worst type of OMGUS, which is reasonless.

Quote
Since Web's reasons for trying to "force through a massclaim" are "awful", what would be a good reason for a D1 massclaim?
Maybe somebody getting daykilled, and definitely a lot of people getting daykilled all at once.
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Dariush

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Yes, because rolefishing is bad. Except, I'm rolefishing someone who I believe isn't town. Why wouldn't town be interested in the roles of other factions?
Ignoring the obvious hipocrisy up there, we don't know for sure you're town. Actually, who am I kidding, you're scum. [/sarcasm]

Dariush:  Why are the person you would vig and the person you are voting not the same person?  That is not a townie behavior.
Because I would actually think at the end of day whom to kill instead of choosing someone randomly at the beginning and my previous reply was a sarcastic retort to ECF's rolefishing.

webadict

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"Because I said so" is a terrible reason. So is,"It's better than any question I've seen so far".
Finally, it doesn't prevent fakeclaims now. Fakeclaiming now actually makes it easier for one to continue fakeclaiming as the game progresses.
That's not true at all. Anyone that claims right away is obviously not lying, as they are claiming as soon as possible. It's the ones that fight and fight about it that are attempting to delay the inevitable, especially idiots like you that have no better reason to NOT claim than "I don't want to." I'd count your other reasons, except that they're blatantly false.

A massclaim at this point will cause one of three things to happen:
A)It will expose all of our roles, and we'll get to watch as the more powerful ones get picked off by scum.
B)It'll cause everybody to scramble for safe fakeclaims, causing a bunch of mislynches when these fakeclaims are found out.
C)There's a small chance of a scum slipping up on their fakeclaim and getting lynched.
The risks of an early massclaim far outweigh the benefits.
A) That's incredibly stupid and false on premise. There are undoubtably doctors and watchers and other roles. Not only that, but you're assuming that some roles are BETTER than other roles, which just isn't true.
B) That doesn't make any sense. How do you mislynch on finding out a fakeclaim? So, somebody is fakeclaiming, you find out, and you mislynch them?
C) This isn't even really a possibility. It would take a majorly bad fakeclaim to get lynched. You're missing the whole POINT of the massclaim, and that's to keep people from changing it later, to provoke discussion, and to come up with a plan, while we simultaneously use actual day skill to play.

Nice job, implying that scum are the only people who want to hide their roles on day one. I'm only buying time for everybody by opposing the massclaim. Cops, trackers, watchers, etc. need time to do their thing. If I wanted to fakeclaim, I would've done it already. I'd need even less time on day one, because I wouldn't need to claim actions and make sure everything fits.
New flash: you're not any more important just because you're a(n) [insert role], and wanting to hide your role is more scummy than not wanting to. Feel free to play the Night game, while I instead force the Day game to be more important. Your argument is faulty on so many levels, it's not even funny. Seeing as how EVERYBODY has a role, then all roles are important.

I have never seen you say that before. Ever.
Which part? That RVS is utter garbage, or that MCing gives everyone information? Because I have said these before many times. Both.

Passive attacks? I don't see any.
How incredibly fakeconvenient.
Learn to read.

As I said, it was mostly a gut feeling. One that's definitely changed over the course of this post. Not lynching a jester means you have a vote you can use to potentially lynch scum. And yes, I'm worried about third party roles, for very good reasons. DEFCON is not a fun way to end a game at all.
But, if you're afraid of third party roles, it STILL doesn't make sense. If I'm dead, then I'm CLEARLY going to doomspeaker you. Not only that, but you should be a little more worried about finding all scum, instead of asking every single player whether they're third party. Instead, you're looking for third parties; NOT mafia. So, I'm assuming that you have no intention of doing so.

Webadict. Trying to force through a massclaim for absolutely awful reasons is not a townie action. If you happen to actually be a jester, congratulations! You've earned my vote for the rest of your short life.
It's not awful reasons. It's better than RVS. It forces fakeclaims out now to find. It focuses the game to a Day game.

Though, I do enjoy the OMGUS, your insistence on finding third parties is staggering, as well as your not want of claiming, fake or otherwise, and shows that you are searching for reasons to vote anyone, no matter how poorly constructed the argument you need to fabricate is.

Webadict:  I can see what you're going after, but you'll pardon me if I'm a little skeptical.  You didn't see it worth asking the opinions of others of a massclaim?
Nope. I didn't. Why would I? I'm proving that D1 Massclaims are superior to RVS, especially after looking at every question that had been posted. Every single one was pointless, so I figured I'd try out MCing. It'll force fakeclaims out right now, give all others as much information before they die, and it'll promote discussion.

Your response to Webadict reeks of OMGUS.
And? When two people suspect eachother, OMGUS tends to happen. It's not even the worst type of OMGUS, which is reasonless.

Quote
Since Web's reasons for trying to "force through a massclaim" are "awful", what would be a good reason for a D1 massclaim?
Maybe somebody getting daykilled, and definitely a lot of people getting daykilled all at once.
To suspect someone, it implies that one person actually finds another person suspicious. You don't actually suspect me because you're scum, especially given your reasons which are "I don't want to claim." However, I'm glad you believe I'm town.

Also, your reason is contrary to your other reason, as this would give MORE power to Night roles, and then the daykills, which are LESS likely to be protected, would have better targets (in your words) to daykill repeatedly. Your logic is incredibly faulty, as this is exactly the same situation you're trying to avoid.
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Leafsnail

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I guess I should first say that I did indeed submit webadict's role.  And I may have an idea as to what his one-shot is, although I hope I'm wrong because that would be ridiculous.  If that is the case though we'll definitely know tomorrow morning.

I'm inclined to agree with webadict this time, actually.  Those claiming the earliest are in most danger of being caught out in a lie as mafia.  Especially since everyone has a night action and we'll be able to observe those whose actions are comfirmable, as well as using our inspections to eradicate liars.  So I'll claim now and vote anyone who remains reluctant to claim.  What do you think of that, Dariush?  Fakeclaims are easiest when you're the last one to claim (see: Bellsounder, where I managed to dodge a massclaim by being dead at the time).  Right?  I think lynching the most reluctant person to claim could provide a good incentive to claim early rather than tailor your fakeclaim to those who have already gone.

I am Someone Else's Role.  I automatically select a random auto ability from a dead guy every morning.  Every night I can perform a random night action from the set of people currently dead.  And, once, I can perform the one-shot of any dead player (not randomly).  So this role is as confirmable as whoever we lynch today.  Or tomorrow.  Or any other day.

Everyone knows that only the mafia are worried specifically about third parties this early on.  Isn't that right, Powder Miner?

Leafsnail:  Isn't that right?
Well, mafia and other third party scum.  But yes, pretty much.

Everyone's here... except for Leafsnail, Dariush, and Ottofar. So Leafsnail, what are your preferred teams to play on?
Bastard serial killer then town.  Being a normal serial killer is no fun, but making devil deals and reviving everyone is awesome.  Although if I can't have access to crazy abilities that noone else could possibly predict then I actually prefer to be town, since that takes the pressure of and just allows me to play.

I spent a good twenty minutes laughing my ass off at this. I was the last remaining scum in the last game, because of my fakeclaiming.
My gut is telling me that you're a jester, which is the only thing keeping me from voting you right now.
Webadict has expressed his enthusiasm for early massclaims in the Game Theory Discussion thread (well, he suggested it for Paranormal but that should equally apply to a role heavy game like this one).  Are you suggesting he somehow predicted he'd be a jester in the next game and therefore decided to set himself up as doing this in advance?

I'm inclined to at least try massclaiming once, since I feel it's likely to go well in a game like this or alternatively prove webadict wrong and either outcome is good.
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Orangebottle

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Those claiming the earliest are in most danger of being caught out in a lie as mafia.  Especially since everyone has a night action and we'll be able to observe those whose actions are comfirmable, as well as using our inspections to eradicate liars.  So I'll claim now and vote anyone who remains reluctant to claim.  What do you think of that, Dariush?  Fakeclaims are easiest when you're the last one to claim (see: Bellsounder, where I managed to dodge a massclaim by being dead at the time).  Right?  I think lynching the most reluctant person to claim could provide a good incentive to claim early rather than tailor your fakeclaim to those who have already gone.
Welp, there's scum #2. I'm guessing their strategy this game is,"Be first people to claim so we can't possibly look like scum, then force everybody else to claim by pressuring them." #3 is probably Jack.

Quote
Webadict has expressed his enthusiasm for early massclaims in the Game Theory Discussion thread (well, he suggested it for Paranormal but that should equally apply to a role heavy game like this one).  Are you suggesting he somehow predicted he'd be a jester in the next game and therefore decided to set himself up as doing this in advance?
No. I'm suggesting nothing beyond the text of that quote.
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Urist Imiknorris

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Urist Jack:
Jack Urist Imiknorris: What reasonably balanced power, other than an extra kill, would you consider scariest in the hands of the Mafia?
Either a redirect* or a vote steal.

Orangebottle:
Welp, there's scum #2. I'm guessing their strategy this game is,"Be first people to claim so we can't possibly look like scum, then force everybody else to claim by pressuring them." #3 is probably Jack.
No. You're transcending the simple OMGUS and are now attacking everyone who agrees with webadict because they must obviously be scum. It's all a damn conspiracy to force a massclaim, you tell us.


I am El Camino, a sweet-ass car.

-If I am lynched, one of the people voting me (at random) suicides because of the awesome car they just destroyed.
-I can redirect my target's action by taking them for a ride.
-I have a one-shot run-you-the-fuck-over kill.

There is a Man Who Arranges The Blocks.
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I don't know how it works. It does.
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YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
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If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Dariush

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I'm inclined to agree with webadict this time, actually.  Those claiming the earliest are in most danger of being caught out in a lie as mafia.  Especially since everyone has a night action and we'll be able to observe those whose actions are comfirmable, as well as using our inspections to eradicate liars.  So I'll claim now and vote anyone who remains reluctant to claim.  What do you think of that, Dariush?  Fakeclaims are easiest when you're the last one to claim (see: Bellsounder, where I managed to dodge a massclaim by being dead at the time).  Right?  I think lynching the most reluctant person to claim could provide a good incentive to claim early rather than tailor your fakeclaim to those who have already gone.
There are three things wrong with this argument - first, I may simply be not around to claim before everyone else does, living on the other side of the world and everything. Second, by your logic you claimed early on specifically to paint yourself in townie light. Third, there's absolutely no difference for the fakeclaimer when to do so - it's not like the roles can be checked during the first day.

Leafsnail

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I'll address each in turn.

Firstly, you're not on the other side of the world.  You are posting.

Secondly, I claimed early to help pressure the scum into claiming.

Third, you're stupid.  There's a large difference for a fakeclaimer.  If you know the town roles before you claim, you can try and slip in a role that they can't detect.  Like what you want to do.  Which is why you're stalling.
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Orangebottle

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Orangebottle:
Welp, there's scum #2. I'm guessing their strategy this game is,"Be first people to claim so we can't possibly look like scum, then force everybody else to claim by pressuring them." #3 is probably Jack.
No. You're transcending the simple OMGUS and are now attacking everyone who agrees with webadict because they must obviously be scum. It's all a damn conspiracy to force a massclaim, you tell us.
You're right. Just webadict and leafsnail are scum.

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"We're in his toilet. We're in Cthulhu's toilet."

""Hey! No breaking character while breaking character"

Dariush

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Firstly, you're not on the other side of the world.  You are posting.
Everyone except me and two other people posted between game start and the time I got to my computer. Go figure.
Secondly, I claimed early to help pressure the scum into claiming.
And how exactly would your claim pressure (other) scum into claiming?
Third, you're stupid.  There's a large difference for a fakeclaimer.  If you know the town roles before you claim, you can try and slip in a role that they can't detect.
They can't detect how? By there being cops/trackers/whatever?
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