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[webadict]

Chaos Armor has asked for a replacement. As such, he will be replaced by klingon13524.

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin - Dariush,
ansontan2000 - Andrew425, zombie urist,
zombie urist - Tiruin, ansontan2000,
klingon13524 - Jim Groovester,
Strategia - Phantom of The Library,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - klingon13524, Strategia,

Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

[klingon13524]

Looks like I've got some drama to catch up on.

[klingon13524]

ansontan2000... Who would you be least likely to investigate if you were a cop, and why?

[Jim Groovester]

Walls of text are awesome.

As a general point, the deeper you get into a broadsides to broadsides wall of text battle with someone, the less involved everyone else is going to be in the argument and the more trouble you'll have convincing everybody about your points, because they're simply not paying attention. Does arguing about every single niggling little detail help you prove that somebody is scum? Usually it doesn't, and it also makes your arguments less effective. Focus on the strongest points that demonstrate your argument, i.e., the most telling pieces of evidence that a player is scum. Have all your other points handy though, in case somebody asks you if you have anything else against your target.

If you really want to though, you can type up lengthy, scathing rebuttals. Don't be surprised if I don't read them though.

Alright, to clarify: There are those that have been in multiple BMs before, zombie urist has been in one: BM XXVI to be exact; but as far as I know, Andrew425 has also been in BMs, albeit more in number than zombie urist.

Yes, I am overestimating the importance of such, but because I can't get any read on zombie urist's playstyle other than what I see as one-sided answers and his lack of aggression, maybe because nobody is voting him? Also, when he stated that: "Do you have anything original to contribute" to others: ansontan2000, Phantom of the Library and Me amongst the rest, he asks the same thing later on in his posts makes me suspicious, as well as annoyed because that seems like we aren't giving suitable information. That, and if he was scumhunting, then he would give his thoughts in detail about everyone's posts, I guess.

I'm only acting on what I know and what I can read from what others posted.

You've said all of this but I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

All these words, they are useless.

E.G., yes there have been players who have played more than one Beginner's Mafia. So... ... ... ... ...?

ansontan2000... Who would you be least likely to investigate if you were a cop, and why?

Sorry, pal. It's too deep in the day for RVS stuff like this to fly.

You're going to need a real vote with real reasons, and preferably soon.

[klingon13524]

My "real" reason is that I skimmed over the 12 pages of text, and it's the first day. But if you don't think that my vote is "real" enough, then unvote.

[Jim Groovester]

Where did you ever get the idea that you could skimp out on putting effort into your vote just because it's the first day?

It certainly wasn't from me.

Pay the game the attention it deserves and come back after you've done a thorough read of the thread.

[Dariush]

Dariush: What is your view on this matter, could you also point out what our mistakes are?

I can only agree with Jim - WoTs are very, very bad. Very bad. Very, very bad. Yes. What I usually do in those cases is:

Tiruin, sum up your case against ZU, with quotes. Preferably back from when all this started.

zombie urist, sum up your case against Tiruin, with quotes. Preferably back from when all this started.

[Andrew425]

Anston2000: I see my vote is still on you.

Anston

I have seen Andrew in a couple of Mafia games here through reading them. As he is more experienced than you and I, I thought he may be able to assume what we plan to do.

Is this an attempt at sucking up?  There are two Scum members, who do you think the other one is?

Strategia Welcome to the game! Let's say you are the doctor tonight, which one of us would you be most likely to save?

I'm not entirely sure. I haven't given much thought to the matter, but off the top of my head, possibly you or Tiruin. I'd have to do a thorough re-reading of the thread so far if I was to make an actual decision, though.

I don't know why people almost always answer that question with the questioner's name. Why wouldn't you try to save the IC? They are always a target regardless of how much pressure seems to be applied to them.

Tiruin

Andrew425: Where are you and what do you see on all this?

Why are you asking questions that could well be reasonably answered by seeing them logically? You haven't made a post since Dariush answered you, and it seems that you aren't focusing any effort on anyone else and are just waiting on ansontan2000 to clear himself up. You seem pretty lax in your posts, in my opinion, care to explain why?

Both of those questions are yours Tiruin. I will answer the first question first. I'm scratching my head watching this whole thing. I don't like how Phantom tried the bandwagon. I don't like how Strategia backs off when he has just a little bit of pressure.

Why am I asking questions that can be seen logically? I was trying to think of a decent RVS question that hadn't been done to death. Sorry i'm not posting twice a day but i've been travelling these last few days. As to my laxness? I don't see it, care to point it out?

[Tiruin]

(I hate it when you've already written an answer then the internet connection messes up. Thanks Jim  )

zombie urist, why I believe you're scum:

zombie urist: You are mafia, and accused mostly due to inactivity. How would you deflect this accusation?

Since every person's activity is available for everyone to see, the best way to avoid this sort of thing is to simply be active. Keep in mind that inactivity isn't necessarily indicative of scumminess. However, hesitance to scumhunting is.

I've been thinking with every word I type down here actually.

You had your vote on me the whole time by the way, or does double voting for one person have any effect?

Tiruin I don't think stormtemplar ever had his vote on you. In fact, you chose him in the RVS. And if you are really thinking with every word, then why did you do a triple post instead of taking more time and putting all that into one?

Andrew425 and stormtemplar Instead of copying and pasting what other people said into your quotes, scroll down to the post itself and press the 'insert quote' on the top right corner and delete the irrelevant parts. This makes it easier for us to see who you're responding to.

Stormtemplar you didn't acknowledge my response. Why not?

Here was the first, your statement did not seem at all like a question, then you kept on questioning without clarification until you dropped him a vote.

unvote
stormtemplar Are you purposely ignoring me?

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Why are you nitpicking?

Andrew425 I'm being thorough. Scum aren't going to reveal themselves. You're deflecting my inquiries. Why?

Deflecting your inquiries? I'm asking you why you are nitpicking the fact the he messed up his post. It seems like you're grasping for straws. Find an actual argument instead of that bs.

Unvote Ok this is the problem when you don't quote completely. I thought you were the one that messed up the post when instead it was actually Ansontan. I'll let him respond before I continue further with these arguments. The only way to find scum is to question everything. He already made a pretty obvious mistake, so I'm just pressuring him more.

However it does feel strange that you're calling me out on his behalf. All your posts are very short and mostly consist of you asking other people questions. Are you going to do anything other than just ask questions?
...
ansontan2000 My still standing questions to you: why didn't you post like you said and why didn't you check that previous post you made before submitting?

One problem here, you misstated yourself. You voted Andrew425 to get an answer or just because he asked you a simple question, then stated it like he was at fault for not quoting completely (ansontan2000's post); you were the first to post before him though and by that, I'd think you would already know what you were saying.

Then you blame Andrew for messing up the post. And then you pressure by...commenting on a formatting mistake? Followed by your vote?


Your voting pattern was: Tiruin>stormtemplar>Andrew425>ansontan2000

Most of which were just to find answers to your own questions, most were with the wrong intention too. Making it seem like scumhunting with a blunt stick-- very hard to see the mark, you are also just giving short helpful answers that may help in scumhunting for everyone in discussion. But to me, you aren't personally tracking anyone nor giving who you exactly think is the scummiest.

Spoiler: On that OMGUS and Chaos Armor (click to show/hide)

Also, that OMGUS you stated

Your entire post reads like an OMGUS, especially answering a question with the exact same question. The only reason that you're voting me is that I haven't asked any RVS questions. It looks like you've given up on Chaos Armor and are looking for a new target. What's wrong with my scumhunting?

One, your vote was made due to a mistake in understanding. No pressure there.
Two, What exact same question? What did you ask that I repeated? I'm not only voting on you because of the lack of RVS but the lack of any read at all. Read the blunt stick above on why.

Also, before it was announced, I did not give up on Chaos Armor. His whole gameplay was on 'I don't know how to answer' and kept it like that. How would anyone gather any info from that? Other than either scum or newbie?

[Dariush]

Actually, his behavior in those posts looks more like overzealous townie than scum. Pushing everywhere at once, trying not to appear non-thorough, et cetera, et cetera. Going into a kinda meta territory, it doesn't look like he is being advised by someone experienced (I'm looking at you, Toaster).

But still I want to hear his side of things first.

[Strategia]

Strategia Welcome to the game! Let's say you are the doctor tonight, which one of us would you be most likely to save?

I'm not entirely sure. I haven't given much thought to the matter, but off the top of my head, possibly you or Tiruin. I'd have to do a thorough re-reading of the thread so far if I was to make an actual decision, though.

I don't know why people almost always answer that question with the questioner's name. Why wouldn't you try to save the IC? They are always a target regardless of how much pressure seems to be applied to them.

It did feel a little like sucking up when I wrote it, but that's the truth. When I wrote that, I was convinced Phantom and zombie were scum, I didn't have much of an opinion on Chaos Armor, and I'd apparently forgotten all about ansontan somehow. I didn't think anyone would really go after the ICs, although if one got NK'd, I might start protecting the other just in case. Then again, there are two ICs, and there's always the chance one of them is actually with the mafia..... It's a moot point though, since the only power I have is apparently the power to make myself look like a scumbag.

[Jim Groovester]

Most of which were just to find answers to your own questions, most were with the wrong intention too. Making it seem like scumhunting with a blunt stick-- very hard to see the mark, you are also just giving short helpful answers that may help in scumhunting for everyone in discussion. But to me, you aren't personally tracking anyone nor giving who you exactly think is the scummiest.

He's getting answers to his questions (which is what he's supposed to do), but the questions are bad or wrong somehow, and he's also holding back who he really suspects. Or so you claim.

As far as I can tell, your argument against him seems to be that he's doing everything he should, but you just don't like it.

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin - Dariush,
ansontan2000 - Andrew425, zombie urist, klingon13524,
zombie urist - Tiruin, ansontan2000,
klingon13524 - Jim Groovester,
Strategia - Phantom of The Library,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - Strategia,

Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

[ansontan2000]

ansontan2000... Who would you be least likely to investigate if you were a cop, and why?

Tiruin, because he has been very actively scumhunting and taking on Zombie.
Also, don't you think it's a bit too late to RVS? The day is about to finish. I'm finding it slightly ironic that all my votes are from RVS pressure.

[Chaos Armor]

This is my BAH! post of a sorts.

My reasons for asking for a replacement: First my personality conflicts with Mafia in general. I do not like to insult people and have a hard time doing it... a very hard time. Second I do not find any enjoyment in the game. This is a big factor as; if I'm not finding enjoyment in something and it is not necessary then I tend to be... lazy about doing it. Third I have problems expressing my views in writing. Though I can do it on paper I usually write a lot of stuff. And since this game is not enjoyable to me I don't want to write all of that stuff. Also to go along with this I would rather spend my time thinking of other things instead of how many flaws I can get this player on.

Good luck everyone, may the force be with you,
-Chaos Armor