Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[King DZA]

Recently, I've found myself making little journeys into the raws in order to make the nature of my little bearded ones more suited to my liking.

I wanted them to be more multicultural, so I gave them the ability to craft some weapons from other races. Such as daggers, scourges, scimitars, bows and arrows. I wanted them to be more respectful toward the bodies of other sentients, so I allowed them to devour the corpses, instead of just letting them sit in the refuse stockpile before being tossed into the magma pool, in the hopes having them be less wasteful, and lessening the bitter rivalry between them and the elves. And currently, I'm trying to get them to play chess, in order to strengthen their mental abilities.

While this alone might not be enough to stop them from being considered dwarven, it makes me wonder how far I could take it before the inhabitants of my dwarf fortresses can hardly be considered dwarves at all.

A poll made by Loud Whispers some time ago, revealed that the most important aspect of being of a dwarf(according the to community) is:
"Doing the most inefficient thing possible in the most inefficient way possible to achieve an unknown goal usually not even known by the dwarf performing such a task until the task is complete... And such the goal turns out to be useless, dangerous or both."

My stubbornness, along with my love of aesthetics, means that efficiency is certainly not a strong point of mine. So if that alone is what makes a dwarf dwarven, then the bearded little bastards have no need to worry about getting a race name change.
The other two highest voted option were "Reckless ingenuity", and most obviously, "Beards". Well, my dwarves still have their facial hair intact, and certainly a high level of ingenuity. However, I try to ensure that nearly all of my projects and endeavors end in with as little life lost as possible, so not too big on recklessness.

With that in mind, at what point will I have tweaked them so much, that they are no longer dwarves, but something else? What If I increase recklessness and become more inefficient, but remove their beards? what If I double their size? Remove alcohol dependency? Completely rewrite their ethics? When are my dwarves, no longer dwarven?

[Girlinhat]

Being a dwarf is a state of mind.  It is composed namely of greed, being quarrelsome, ingenuity, and thoughtlessness - yes, you must be smart and stupid at the same time, and this conflict is the core of the dwarf.

Dig deeper.  Deeper still.  Can't go deeper?  We know tricks to solve that.  Mine ALL the ore!  Claim ALL the socks!  Seize ALL the elven animals!  The world is yours.  It is not yours for the taking.  It is already yours!  You just haven't moved it all within arm's reach, yet.

Build it bigger.  Show off what you've got.  Don't just sit on that gold, make gold blocks and build walls.  Don't just slash the enemies with a steel axe, slash them with a steel axe studded with silver!  Statue isn't a masterpiece, melt it and try again!  Higher skill, higher value, proclaim your wealth.  Proclaim yourself better than everyone else.  When they come to complain you shove a spear in their gut.  Even if they don't come to complain, and the come with those donkeys, you shove a spear in their guy anyways!  You're a Dwarf, you laugh in the face of danger, even if you have to take the train outside of town and knock on danger's door while danger isn't bothering anyone.

A single boulder into a whole workshop?  How do you make booze from a plant within 3 hours using only an alder log and a barrel?  How did you turn a single rock into a whole wall section?  How did you turn a single bar of metal into an entire statue?  For that matter, how did you build such architecture, or do such engravings of engravings of engravings of cheese?  The Humans piddle with walls, you piddle with obsidian machineguns and magma land mines.  The world is a machine and you its mechanic, with all the tinkering and construction just a simple movement before you bend the whole world to your whim.  If you want it to be done, then you may do so.  You don't look at the sky and sigh.  You look up, and then you cast raw obsidian in the clouds because nothing is beyond your ability.  A handful of stones is all you need to churn a river into an impossible liquid sinkhole.  There are no limits to dwarven ingenuity, even nature itself.  Anything named impossible, simply isn't fully explored yet.

But yet, above all else, the Dwarf is stupid.  Rush to get socks during a battle.  Fall asleep at the lever.  Go On Break when your patient arrives bleeding and screaming.  Carry your baby into battle.  Even beyond that, the dwarven hive mind is stupid.  There is no need for practically anything, in fact most times causing injury to dwarven life as a whole.  Obsidian casting costs lives to achieve a mere wall that the masons could have produced just as easy.  That silver-encrusted armor needed to buy the silver with booze that could have sustained a dwarf for twenty years!  There is no point to these things, no logic, just the incessant piddling of a child genius who giggles at the word "penis" and is smart enough to build a cast obsidian penis in the middle of the air.

That, is Dwarf.  In this regard, any creature may be a Dwarf, regardless of what the creature actually is.  See: Cacame, the Elven Dwarf.

[Nan]

no beards, no booze, no picks, not short = not dwarves.

I guess you could argue that without booze they're just unhappy dwarves, but taking a dwarf's beard, pick or short stature is like taking his soul.

[MadocComadrin]

I wouldn't say their stupid as much as child-like: their emotions and desires overtake their mental capacity. Seeing they must always over take a dorfs mental capacity, that means the smarter the dwarf, the stronger their desires. That is, the smarter dwarf builds more overly-elaborate, ingenuous, life-costing devices to obtain their multitude of booze barrels and orphaned socks than a less smart dwarf.

[tommy521]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Being a dwarf is a state of mind.  It is composed namely of greed, being quarrelsome, ingenuity, and thoughtlessness - yes, you must be smart and stupid at the same time, and this conflict is the core of the dwarf.

Dig deeper.  Deeper still.  Can't go deeper?  We know tricks to solve that.  Mine ALL the ore!  Claim ALL the socks!  Seize ALL the elven animals!  The world is yours.  It is not yours for the taking.  It is already yours!  You just haven't moved it all within arm's reach, yet.

Build it bigger.  Show off what you've got.  Don't just sit on that gold, make gold blocks and build walls.  Don't just slash the enemies with a steel axe, slash them with a steel axe studded with silver!  Statue isn't a masterpiece, melt it and try again!  Higher skill, higher value, proclaim your wealth.  Proclaim yourself better than everyone else.  When they come to complain you shove a spear in their gut.  Even if they don't come to complain, and the come with those donkeys, you shove a spear in their guy anyways!  You're a Dwarf, you laugh in the face of danger, even if you have to take the train outside of town and knock on danger's door while danger isn't bothering anyone.

A single boulder into a whole workshop?  How do you make booze from a plant within 3 hours using only an alder log and a barrel?  How did you turn a single rock into a whole wall section?  How did you turn a single bar of metal into an entire statue?  For that matter, how did you build such architecture, or do such engravings of engravings of engravings of cheese?  The Humans piddle with walls, you piddle with obsidian machineguns and magma land mines.  The world is a machine and you its mechanic, with all the tinkering and construction just a simple movement before you bend the whole world to your whim.  If you want it to be done, then you may do so.  You don't look at the sky and sigh.  You look up, and then you cast raw obsidian in the clouds because nothing is beyond your ability.  A handful of stones is all you need to churn a river into an impossible liquid sinkhole.  There are no limits to dwarven ingenuity, even nature itself.  Anything named impossible, simply isn't fully explored yet.

But yet, above all else, the Dwarf is stupid.  Rush to get socks during a battle.  Fall asleep at the lever.  Go On Break when your patient arrives bleeding and screaming.  Carry your baby into battle.  Even beyond that, the dwarven hive mind is stupid.  There is no need for practically anything, in fact most times causing injury to dwarven life as a whole.  Obsidian casting costs lives to achieve a mere wall that the masons could have produced just as easy.  That silver-encrusted armor needed to buy the silver with booze that could have sustained a dwarf for twenty years!  There is no point to these things, no logic, just the incessant piddling of a child genius who giggles at the word "penis" and is smart enough to build a cast obsidian penis in the middle of the air.

That, is Dwarf.  In this regard, any creature may be a Dwarf, regardless of what the creature actually is.  See: Cacame, the Elven Dwarf.

Perhaps a signature with a spoiler will work?

[proxn_punkd]

According to TV Tropes (which I will not link), your dwarves are all the same pretty standard.

[Elf Lover]

As long as your females have beards and use babies as armour, then they are still dwarves.

[ayoriceball]

no beards, no booze, no picks, not short = not dwarves.

I guess you could argue that without booze they're just unhappy dwarves, but taking a dwarf's beard, pick or short stature is like taking his soul.

Yup. Look at Elder Scrolls or Dragon Age (or any other form of fictional entertainment.) They need beards, they need picks, and they need to be sturdy. That's about it.

[Kofthefens]

Being a dwarf is a state of mind.  It is composed namely of greed, being quarrelsome, ingenuity, and thoughtlessness - yes, you must be smart and stupid at the same time, and this conflict is the core of the dwarf.

Dig deeper.  Deeper still.  Can't go deeper?  We know tricks to solve that.  Mine ALL the ore!  Claim ALL the socks!  Seize ALL the elven animals!  The world is yours.  It is not yours for the taking.  It is already yours!  You just haven't moved it all within arm's reach, yet.

Build it bigger.  Show off what you've got.  Don't just sit on that gold, make gold blocks and build walls.  Don't just slash the enemies with a steel axe, slash them with a steel axe studded with silver!  Statue isn't a masterpiece, melt it and try again!  Higher skill, higher value, proclaim your wealth.  Proclaim yourself better than everyone else.  When they come to complain you shove a spear in their gut.  Even if they don't come to complain, and the come with those donkeys, you shove a spear in their guy anyways!  You're a Dwarf, you laugh in the face of danger, even if you have to take the train outside of town and knock on danger's door while danger isn't bothering anyone.

A single boulder into a whole workshop?  How do you make booze from a plant within 3 hours using only an alder log and a barrel?  How did you turn a single rock into a whole wall section?  How did you turn a single bar of metal into an entire statue?  For that matter, how did you build such architecture, or do such engravings of engravings of engravings of cheese?  The Humans piddle with walls, you piddle with obsidian machineguns and magma land mines.  The world is a machine and you its mechanic, with all the tinkering and construction just a simple movement before you bend the whole world to your whim.  If you want it to be done, then you may do so.  You don't look at the sky and sigh.  You look up, and then you cast raw obsidian in the clouds because nothing is beyond your ability.  A handful of stones is all you need to churn a river into an impossible liquid sinkhole.  There are no limits to dwarven ingenuity, even nature itself.  Anything named impossible, simply isn't fully explored yet.

But yet, above all else, the Dwarf is stupid.  Rush to get socks during a battle.  Fall asleep at the lever.  Go On Break when your patient arrives bleeding and screaming.  Carry your baby into battle.  Even beyond that, the dwarven hive mind is stupid.  There is no need for practically anything, in fact most times causing injury to dwarven life as a whole.  Obsidian casting costs lives to achieve a mere wall that the masons could have produced just as easy.  That silver-encrusted armor needed to buy the silver with booze that could have sustained a dwarf for twenty years!  There is no point to these things, no logic, just the incessant piddling of a child genius who giggles at the word "penis" and is smart enough to build a cast obsidian penis in the middle of the air.

That, is Dwarf.  In this regard, any creature may be a Dwarf, regardless of what the creature actually is.  See: Cacame, the Elven Dwarf.

If only I could sig this.

[Nan]

As long as your females have beards and use babies as armour, then they are still dwarves.

Yes. The fact that dwarvern babies are routinely used as shields by their own mothers, explains a lot about dwarven behavior, for exmaple, why dwarves prefer to be constantly drunk, and basically not aware of what's going on in their world. If a dwarf did develop anything beyond the dimmest awareness of the situation they are actually in, they would permanently go stark raving mad or berserk or starve themselves to death. A dwarf's capacity for unawareness of anything except the location of the booze pile, food pile, bed, and whatever task they immediately have to perform, all comes from conditioning as a shield child. A dwarf simply cannot afford to think about the fact that his own mother is using him as a shield to stop copper bolts.

Why female dwarves do this is a matter of some controversy. Those in the "ladybeards" school of thought would say that it is simply the dwarvish thing to do. Those in the "no ladybeards" school of thought would say that female dwarves suffer deep-rooted trauma from not having a beard. For this reason they feel bitter resentment towards their male infants, and wish to spare their female infants a beardless life, so in either case, willingly use infants as meat shields.

[BrandonKun]

You're a Dwarf, you laugh in the face of danger, even if you have to take the train outside of town and knock on danger's door while danger isn't bothering anyone.

Sigg'd.

This was just... amazing.

[King DZA]

Well if what Girlinhat says is correct, I'm probably one of the most dwarven motherfuckers I know. Which is quite a twist, considering I've always thought myself to be the opposite.

It's like a happy ending to a predictable Disney movie:

"I've searched all over the place, But I just can't find the spirit of dwarfiness..."

"Don't you see, King DZA? You've been so occupied with looking for the spirit of dwarfiness, that the one place you forgot to look, was inside yourself. The dwarf you've been searching for has been you, all along!"

According to TV Tropes (which I will not link), your dwarves are all the same pretty standard.

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of creating chess playing, bow-wielding dwarves, then.

[Monk321654]

Dwarves aren't really stupid and smart at the same time.
They're like Australians from Team Fortress 2.
They're incredibly intelligent, but lack common sense.
They can build a perpetual motion machine from two water wheels and a screw pump, but don't have the common sense to avoid getting shot in the face chasing down a stray sock in a battle field.

[Loud Whispers]

DZA, it's true, the Dorfiness has been in you all along. The poll said what the community thought made a Dorf - THE COMMUNITY is the Dorfiest part of Dorf.

FOR THE DOOOORRRFFFF

[Wannazzaki]

DZA, it's true, the Dorfiness has been in you all along. The poll said what the community thought made a Dorf - THE COMMUNITY is the Dorfiest part of Dorf.

FOR THE DOOOORRRFFFF

THIS. IS. DORFA