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[Truean]

Please pardon my extreme and legendary misanthropy. I have a general distaste for academics who might have noble intentions and horrible realities of studying for the sake of knowledge. They later live to regret it. And even though the analogy is spot on because we've already tried it for the noble tactical purpose of making it easier to shoot enemies in the head, I stick with my position that it's less about what causes it than how people react to it (badly and unfairly as a rule here). At the very least, parents already pay tens of thousands of dollars trying to cure their kids right now....

This is why, despite having one of my degrees in psych, I think it would be positively terrible if we ever found out how the human mind works. We would immediately corrupt and/or weaponize it.

Has anyone considered the possibility that it's all of the above factors and a few we haven't even thought about? Moreover, how do you explain bi sexuality, which has always puzzled me?

[kaijyuu]

Moreover, how do you explain bi sexuality, which has always puzzled me?

It's really not that complicated, I don't think. Sexuality is just tied more to personality rather than anatomy. Bi folk don't care which... err, holes are available and for what purpose (or maybe they do, but it's just different "flavors" of the same thing). Most attraction for them is just based on the mental rather than physical aspects of their partner, I'd imagine.

I consider myself only about 95% heterosexual. I'm mostly into women, but there's been more than one guy out there I've considered attractive, and would not be adverse to dating one.



Anywho I explained my position on the main topic back in vector's thread: Why does it even matter? I mean yeah figuring it out might satisfy some idle curiosity, but beyond that I see no practical point or purpose. People are who they are. Knowledge of how the mechanisms work gives us nothing other than (possibly) the ability to change it, and why would we want to change it? I can't think of a reason.

[Truean]

why would we want to change it? I can't think of a reason.

O I'm sure lots of people have made arguments for lots and lots of changes, especially for people who aren't them.... You know... others....

To get even more complicated. I've found there are different types of gays. There are incredibly masculine gays who tend to hang out at gyms. Then there are incredibly feminine ones. There's everything in between too. These are further subdivided into those who like the same or different type of gay (masculine gays who like masculine gays, masculine gayss who like feminine gays, feminine gays who like masculine gays and feminine gays who like feminine gays, or gays who don't care/like both types...) I've found this rather frustrating as I will sometimes really like a gay guy but he doesn't like the fact that I'm quite feminine/trans (though he might like the other parts of who I am). "You're really nice but if I wanted that then I might as well date a girl..."

That doesn't even touch bi sexuality, but there's flavors of that too and they get even more complicated.

No idea what causes any of the above.

[Frumple]

No idea what causes any of the above.

Probably the exact same thing that causes those sorts of preferences in heterosexual relationships, I'd guess. Gender preference doesn't really determine what a person prefers in regard to personality traits, and only somewhat in terms of physical ones. They strike me as kind of parallel lines of consideration (at least until they cross over, anyway, at which point relationships form/are sought.).

[Heron TSG]

Edit:And the fact that homosexuality is perfectly okay doesn't mean we cannot be interested in what cause it. There is nothing wrong with magnets and magnetism, scientists still tried to find how they worked.

Magnetism can be used for electronics and other technologies. Researching what causes homosexuality doesn't seem to have any beneficial applications. (but please, correct me if I'm wrong.) All I can imagine are the lunatics who would try to 'cure' it once they found out how.

[MaximumZero]

Moreover, how do you explain bi sexuality, which has always puzzled me?

It's easy. There are some traits about women that turn me on. There are also some traits about men that turn me on. That makes me bisexual.

It's really not that complicated, I don't think. Sexuality is just tied more to personality rather than anatomy. Bi folk don't care which... err, holes are available and for what purpose (or maybe they do, but it's just different "flavors" of the same thing). Most attraction for them is just based on the mental rather than physical aspects of their partner, I'd imagine.

That's untrue, and bordering on the downright offensive. Attraction is no different from one side than the other. It can be purely physical, purely mental, both, or even more faceted than that.

[Jerick]

Edit:And the fact that homosexuality is perfectly okay doesn't mean we cannot be interested in what cause it. There is nothing wrong with magnets and magnetism, scientists still tried to find how they worked.

Magnetism can be used for electronics and other technologies. Researching what causes homosexuality doesn't seem to have any beneficial applications. (but please, correct me if I'm wrong.) All I can imagine are the lunatics who would try to 'cure' it once they found out how.

Research into the causes of sexualitity is research into how our brains work.
If we can understand the cause of such things then we will likely understand the brain as a whole a lot better and how genetics effect it.
Our minds are the least understood but most esstiential parts of our bodies.
If we are ever to completely understand it we'll need to look at all the pieces of the puzzle and can't afford to leave out vital parts.
I doubt you can argue against the benefit of total understanding of how our minds work but to get that we'll have to eventualy figure out the cause of homosexualitiy and how it works even if it's just a byproduct of other research.
Saddly things ment to help are often misused but that doesn't mean we should give up on something because someone might (or even very likely) will use it for neraifous purposes.
I'm geninuely concerned how such knowledge will be used but in my view it's an argument for care and responsiblity on the part of those scientists who will one day find the answer.

[kaijyuu]

You'll have to explain to me why you find that assertion offensive, MZ.


Also yes I'm very much generalizing, but Truean asked a general question and I gave a generalized response from my experience. Obviously not everyone fits the same mold. I'm one that usually champions that fact

[MaximumZero]

You'll have to explain to me why you find that assertion offensive, MZ.


Also yes I'm very much generalizing, but Truean asked a general question and I gave a generalized response from my experience. Obviously not everyone fits the same mold. I'm one that usually champions that fact

Well, I may have taken the tone wrong, as this is the internet, but it seemed like you were coming across as the partner in bisexuality didn't matter, just the availability. Most bisexuals have standards for both sexes. They're just like normal standards for straight people, it just happens to apply to everyone instead of just one gender.

[kaijyuu]

Ah yeah that's not my intention at all. If anything, I'm trying to communicate that the partner matters even more, since their... equipment is more or less irrelevant.


But of course everyone's different and all that. I wouldn't go up to a random bi person and automatically assume they only care about personality and not physical attractiveness.

[Vattic]

People seem to fall on many different spectrums. I believe that people are less likely to sit at the extreme ends of the sexual preference spectrum than is commonly seen. Society forces fairly strict roles on people. My reason for believing this is that there have been societies where bisexuality is the norm with the minority sitting at the extremes. Other social animals also seem to be similar when it comes to sexual gratification at least.

As for biology vs nurture/choice I really don't know but I dislike how the nurture/choice arguments are used to degrade homosexuals. I suspect biology sets the limits and nurture and/or choice place you within those limits. I also suspect nurture/social pressure can make someone act outside how they otherwise would. It isn't exactly uncommon for people to act against their own wishes because the people around them say it's the right thing to do.

[Max White]

Anybody have any studies showing a high rate of identical twins (Who share the same DNA) that when one is homosexual, there is a very high chance that the other is too?
Because if such a study was found, that would put this to rest wouldn't it?

[Heron TSG]

Not at all. I'm around my twin the vast majority of the time, anything he does is bound to have an effect on me. If they were separated at birth it'd be a little more convincing.

[Jackrabbit]

Oh wow, I can actually contribute to a thread and not feel like I'm talking out my ass!

I'd say that homosexuality probably has a grounding in a person's genes but is very strongly influenced by the influence of society, family, ect. You could easily have people who find men attractive but vigorously deny that they do. I know at least one person like that, and he never considered for a minute that he could be anything other than straight because he was raised in a conservative Christian family.
 
In my case I think it probably started with genetics, in that I am attracted to features of both sexes and probably would be even if I decided to ignore it and 'be straight' and that all got jumbled by the onset of puberty and the fact that I've never seen homosexuality as something wrong because both my parents drilled the fact that they're just people very hard into my skull from the minute I knew that homosexuality was a thing. Also it probably has something to do with the fact that I am very much a  'middle ground' sort of person and I hate having to choose.

So really, I think that people probably have a genetic predisposition towards what sex they find attractive (and I've heard a lot of people take kaijyuu's position and consider themselves straight but don't deny that they've found at least one person of the same sex attractive at one point) and sometimes that predisposition is so strong they can't ignore it, but at the end of the day it comes down to the choice to act on those feelings, a choice that is heavily influenced by factors like society, friends and family. So it could be mainly genetic, if that predisposition (which is a word I love and will use till it wears out and loses all meaning) is strong enough, which would lead somebody to believe they never had a choice, they were born this way, or it could be just somebody embracing their attraction to certain people of the same sex, which would mean they'd assume they did have a choice. Homosexuals (and bisexauls and pansexuals ect ect) are people, and people are a pretty diverse lot.

So this is one thing I really think homosexuals need to clarify within their own community, to the rest of the world.

And that's why I don't think they can. There isn't one definitive cause for homosexuality, or at least I seriously doubt there is and I don't think the community would ever be able to take a unified stand on the issue without alienating a lot of people.

One slightly off topic thing I wanted to ask, because I feel bad about it. Does anyone else find flamboyant homosexuals really, really annoying? I know it's awful of me and unfair on them but holy crap they annoy the hell out of me. Does anyone else (who is, you know, gay, bi, ect.) feel like that? Because I don't want to be both into dudes and homophobic.

[Max White]

Not at all. I'm around my twin the vast majority of the time, anything he does is bound to have an effect on me. If they were separated at birth it'd be a little more convincing.

Well it would be because we have a control group, that is non-identical twins. We already have studies from them showing no correlation between sexuality.
Because we have a control group to measure against, it would be a valid test.