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[ab00]

I'm perfectly willing to be part of this test world.

[Eric Blank]

I agree. But if we do that, we should let Blank generate the pocket world using the PW map and our advanced parameters (make sure the good/evil areas are scaled accordingly). That's what we should've done last time, anyway. Also include the display case/pedestal mod and playable gobbos/elves/humans/kobolds while you're at it.

I'll get right on it. I've reimplemented most of the modifications. The only thing I haven't had the chance to tackle was the entity file changes.

*edit;

Alright, I've succeeded in generating a 150 year-old smaller region. Any objections to me taking the first turn of bug testing? No? Good. I'll try my best to respect the thus-far agreed-upon rules.

You can expect the save sometime Friday night, probably closer to midnight. (U.S. Mountain Time.)

[Spish]

Did you increase the civilization number? And are all the races alive this time?
You know what, let's stop thinking of this as a buggy test world and treat it as an alternative. A lite version of the main one, if you will, that we'll continue running alongside it so the rest of us have something to do while we wait.

I just did a small abandon on an evil region to see if artifacts worked better in this version. The game crashed every single time I tried to enter or reclaim the site.

Not a good sign. I think you might wanna copy your save and test-abandon to see if this happens with your fortress as well. I'll try to find out what is causing it.

[Eric Blank]

Alrighty then. I did increase the number of civs to 7, and all the races, including kobolds, are alive. unfortunately kobolds still aren't playable in fortress mode because they still use caves as their default site, so they don't show up on the lsit of civs.

So far my fort has been mildly successful. I say mildly because it's only summer of the first year and a goddamn kea drowned one of my dorfs in a pond. Her husband is still ecstatic, luckily. The keas managed to steal the nice bronze pick and battleaxe I just bought from the caravan, though.

Remind me to put Keas on my list of creatures I absolutely hate.

I'm designing a defensive entryway now.

[Spish]

I figured out what's causing the crashes. All abandons and reclaims were perfectly stable until my first artifact was made. I did three different abandons of the same fortress: one while the artifact was being made (works), one with the finished artifact still in the workshop (crashes), and one with the artifact in a stockpile (crashes). Artifacts are even buggier in this version, and crash the game 100% of the time when abandonment buggery gets involved.

I had figured this were the case, since books were acting kinda weird in adventure mode.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On the bright side, since this is a serious gamebreaking issue, that means Toady will have to address it as soon as possible. You may want to postpone the ending of your fortress until this is resolved.

[Eric Blank]

Nah, I'll just kill anybody that tries to make an artifact

SPeaking of killing people:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Doesn't look like anybody will be making artifacts anyway

Speaking of killing even more people/dorfs; my turn on Hellcannon has come up.
Doooooooooooomed


Well, My fortress is just about done-for. Everyone is miserable, especially the dozen or more children that lost parents to the titan and subsequently had to watch them decay at the bottom of the pit. I'm forced to lock a dorf that went into a mood out of the workshop he claimed to prevent him from creating an artifact. When they die, the tantrum spiral will only get worse.

[Spish]

Hmm, I might've spoke too soon. The first three embarks were fubar, but the fourth one with an artifact worked. In a slight improvement over Romancewhipped, when I dropped the artifact in question, I could still see and pick it up (it still infinitely reappears in the workshop). However, if I try to sleep or leave the site with it, instead of simply losing it, the game completely and utterly crashes (actually, it does when I do most things involving an abandoned site, but especially this). Edit: Or maybe that's not the reason, holy hell abandoned fortresses are crashy.

On the other hand, all my dwarves were still hanging around the "abandoned" fortress. And not doing anything, not even moving around. They might have something to do with the auto-crashing. Too many dwarves maybe? You'd still probably be better off not making any artifacts. I'd advise you to be careful and check the post-abandoment integrity of the site before you complete it.

[Eric Blank]

Looks like the next release is suppsoed to fix that crash bug you were experiencing. If it has, then I'll upload the save. I've still done notihng with the fort since yesterday, but I hold life itself accountable for that.

[Spish]

I tried copying my super-crashy world into 34.02, but it doesn't even appear on the loading menu. According to the Toady One, you have to restart anew. Welp, should've waited for a more stable release.

I'm still curious about seeing the save though, if you could put it up. By the way, were there any purple I's on the map when you genned it? The necromancer towers can have more than 10 necromancers in them at once, so maybe necros aren't as rare as we thought they'd be.

[Eric Blank]

Sadly, there were no towers in that smaller region.

I'm going to be exceptionally lazy and just import the raws I cooked up for 34.01 into 34.02. I even went to such great lengths as to restore all the words from the language files that Toady removed, which was basically everything from the untoward category.

If anyone remembers what utility it was that lets you compare and contrast two mods to speed it up/ensure that I'm not responsible for horrible game-breaking anarchic bugs, that would be great.

Well, I've got 37kb of errorlog to sift through. 100% of it is related to the new animal men being used by the any_races entity for adventurers. Since the normal animal men from the raws aren't causing such problems, I suppose copying them once again will fix it.
Damnit, Toady. Why did you have to screw with the humanoid creature variations without mentioning it in the change log?

[Eric Blank]

I've completely failed to figure out what's wrong with the creatures that are generating errors, since they are fundamentally identical to those that are not.

Spoiler: explanation that non-modders can ignore (click to show/hide)

The duplicated axolotl men don't generate any errors, but the duplicated aye-aye men do. The duplicated aye-aye man raw structure hasn't been altered from that of the original aye-aye man structure, yet the original aye-aye man does not generate errors when running the game. Reduplicating it does nothing, because they're identical. In addition, they show up as "nothing" in the arena, which promptly crashes the game when used.

I am so confused...

The old races that were implemented also generate 1 error each; GO_TO_TAG fails to find target, so it screws up an attack flag. No big deal; we can even fix that after generation.

The races that cause these problems will just have to be removed for our purposes, because they cause it to crash. I'd leave a list of what was taken out, but I can't decide whether that would be shorter than the list of what was left in. Just know that the only errors left to patch up in the error log are from the races added in 31.25, and should be easy to fix.

Do you think it's appropriate to begin the game now? Or are there still enough major bugs to scare us away? I'll generate and upload a world shortly, if it's appropriate.

[Graebeard]

I still hear a lot of people talking about crashes, but I think there will always be some amount of those.  Toady said he hoped not to release any compatibility-breaking updates for a while.  As long as that's the case we could get started now or wait for another round of fixes just to make sure.

[Spish]

Blank; what, exactly, are you trying to do that is causing these problems?

Also, before we even think about starting for real, we need to see more prototypes so we can get the world fine-tuned for DF2012. Either way, another round of fixes wouldn't hurt.

Another pre-generation idea: raise the population of Sea Serpents and Sea Monsters to 5ish. It'd be kind of sad for them to go extinct after one ocean fortress

[Feb]

I vote we should increase the evil to about 1/10th to 1/5th of the world, jack megabeasts to 1000 and have only 1 partial ocean with 200 volcanoes.  Track megabeast @ 50 years and stop when 50-60% are killed (we.. need a lot of beasts looking at the list of players, otherwise it'd be too tame by the time it gets to the later player's turns)
Considering that there will be ALOT of us playing on it, I'm sure a lot of us would want evil biomes for... various reasons, all the more !!FUN!! to explore as well.  The other not-so-dorfy dorfs can stay in the normal parts of the world with the elves/humes

[Eric Blank]

I was using the new animal men in the adventurer civ to permit play as any animalman race. Unfortunately a huge number of them don't work and had to be taken out.

And I agree with a couple more prototypes. I just generated a couple worlds and suddenly realized it is virtually impossible to find waterskins, backpacks, or quivers (or anything else you were actually looking for) in shops, and completely impossible for most of the new animal men to find clothing. So, I'm opening up Wanderer's Friend to see about utilizingblatantly stealing some of it's reactions and modifying them to suit our needs. (clothing and utility production.)
Not sure what other components of it should be used, but Lofn promises a big update for it soon so if that's done before we give the go-ahead for this game it's implementation can be re-revised. If we don't really give two shits about Wanderer's Friend, then I can cook up some reactions to help adventurers gear up with otherwise unacquirable goods.



We can do absolutely anything else as well, if anyone has any ideas to make adventure mode more !!FUN!! or interesting.

I vote we should increase the evil to about 1/10th to 1/5th of the world, jack megabeasts to 1000 and have only 1 partial ocean with 200 volcanoes.  Track megabeast @ 50 years and stop when 50-60% are killed (we.. need a lot of beasts looking at the list of players, otherwise it'd be too tame by the time it gets to the later player's turns)
Considering that there will be ALOT of us playing on it, I'm sure a lot of us would want evil biomes for... various reasons, all the more !!FUN!! to explore as well.  The other not-so-dorfy dorfs can stay in the normal parts of the world with the elves/humes

Duly noted. Megabeasts are set to 300 mega and 600 semi-mega, 65% of which survive 160-180 year world gens. With the large world there's actually a lot of space in evil regions; well over what would be needed for 70-80 fortresses, even if some of them have sub-par resources. There are 200 volcanoes, some very impressive oceans, islands, and mountains, and plenty of crap in-between. My initial test of the world I generated played every bit as smoothly as I'd hoped, too. Loading the clean worlds took only 10 seconds. Keep in mind though that I spent the money to get myself a really nice processor and 16gb of RAM, so I don't know how it would work for the average PC.

As a general rule of thumb, how many of you routinely play medium to large worlds? I don't think I've ever used anything less than medium for actual play, even if FPS eventually drops below 15.