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Author Topic: Got a neeto idea (want in?)  (Read 64113 times)

Ghills

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #105 on: January 08, 2012, 11:56:49 pm »

Well, yeah. But that's a (entirely valid) meta-game reason. Doesn't help with the internal inconsistency.

In DF, I'd say dwarfs innate insanity and racism is what's keeping them from taking over the world.  That doesn't change with what kind of material they can make exportable boxes out of.   
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DwarvenScience

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #106 on: January 09, 2012, 12:09:55 am »

If the range is 500-1000, I'm going for 1000. Personally, I'd have the settings down to default 2500-5000

1000 seems reasonable, combined with high volcanism variance it should give enough variety of embarks to make for some fun and varied forts to adventure in. But i take your point about mineral overload, gold is no fun if you have enough to construct an entire castle just mining out your dwarves living quaters

on another note I vote for cavern layers = 2, less distance to HFS and magma sea without compromising on things like cavern flora/fauna and uprights etc. Personally i always sigh inwardly when i find the magma sea is over 140 Z levels beneath the surface. What do others think?
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #107 on: January 09, 2012, 12:19:16 am »

If the range is 500-1000, I'm going for 1000. Personally, I'd have the settings down to default 2500-5000

1000 seems reasonable, combined with high volcanism variance it should give enough variety of embarks to make for some fun and varied forts to adventure in. But i take your point about mineral overload, gold is no fun if you have enough to construct an entire castle just mining out your dwarves living quaters

on another note I vote for cavern layers = 2, less distance to HFS and magma sea without compromising on things like cavern flora/fauna and uprights etc. Personally i always sigh inwardly when i find the magma sea is over 140 Z levels beneath the surface. What do others think?

Personally I think a stairway to hell that goes on forever reminds you just how far underground you are, and would add to the loveliness. But the logistics disagree with me :P

Spish

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #108 on: January 09, 2012, 12:40:42 am »

I just tested another embark in my 1 cavern layer world. This time there was a different problem. There were 93 cavern layers this time, but the tiny, 2-Z cavern was well-hidden between the magma layer and the surface. It took me an hour to find it. It didn't seem to affect the FPS at all either. Mine was a solid 400 FPS by the end of year one, about the same I get with my usual 3-layer embarks (maybe less, actually, but it could've had something to do with the ocean waves).

If lowering the layer number doesn't actually affect the size of the caverns and the depth of the crust, I'm gonna have to vote against it. :-\
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Rainseeker

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #109 on: January 09, 2012, 01:02:08 am »

I am perhaps interested in taking a turn.  Would someone mind linking me to the rules outline, if there is one?  I'm a little overwhelmed to start reading at the start.
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Spish

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #110 on: January 09, 2012, 01:27:11 am »

We haven't established any sort of rules yet, that'll probably have to wait until the Community thread goes up.

Any Perfect World wizards in the house? It's about time we got a rough draft goin.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 01:30:07 am by Spish »
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ayoriceball

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #111 on: January 09, 2012, 01:36:42 am »

We haven't established any sort of rules yet, that'll probably have to wait until the Community thread goes up.

Any Perfect World wizards in the house? It's about time we got a rough draft goin.

PW isn't too complicated. :P
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Eric Blank

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #112 on: January 09, 2012, 02:10:57 am »

I already posted a rough draft of the landscape GIH suggested. Huge, fairly flat valley between various mountains, with a sea along the northern border. Been waiting for ANYONE to comment on it and provide ideas for where to go next. Oh, and possibly create areas you would like to embark in.

Here's that post.

Keep in mind that perfect world (at least 1.5) cannot guarantee a certain biome and temperature, stone type or degree of good/evil will appear in a given location. Savagery, rainfall, volcanism, drainage and elevation are possible, but everything is still open to being eroded by rain and river systems when DF actually generates.

I was thinking it may be nice to add some secluded mountain valleys, but erosion will kill a lot of them... Just make more I guess :P
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Cellmonk

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #113 on: January 09, 2012, 02:14:55 am »

Posting to watch, and possibly participate in when I have the time. :D
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DwarvenScience

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #114 on: January 09, 2012, 02:58:50 am »

If lowering the layer number doesn't actually affect the size of the caverns and the depth of the crust, I'm gonna have to vote against it. :-\

Im pretty sure that less cavern layers make for less thick crust on average, maybe the embark was at high elevation?

Eric Blank - looks good, the main thing is to make sure there is enough variety for people. I guess we cant have both flat grassland AND sheer cliffs so we compromise on that. What is peoples opinion on erosion? Do you guys like flat embarks, cliffs or dont really care? (you can make wicked sheer cliffs by setting erosion cycles really high, perfect for that minas tirith replica)
I agree with the huge embark because though building a world full of forts in close proximity sounds good in real life we need a big varied world to accommodate as many peoples tastes as possible so it is fun for everyone.
EDIT: more volcanoes would be good actually, perhaps more medium-sized good and evil biomes? also to get a scorching desert i guess you could increase the drainage on the top island
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 03:57:42 am by DwarvenScience »
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Babylon

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #115 on: January 09, 2012, 03:09:21 am »

If the range is 500-1000, I'm going for 1000. Personally, I'd have the settings down to default 2500-5000

1000 seems reasonable, combined with high volcanism variance it should give enough variety of embarks to make for some fun and varied forts to adventure in. But i take your point about mineral overload, gold is no fun if you have enough to construct an entire castle just mining out your dwarves living quaters

on another note I vote for cavern layers = 2, less distance to HFS and magma sea without compromising on things like cavern flora/fauna and uprights etc. Personally i always sigh inwardly when i find the magma sea is over 140 Z levels beneath the surface. What do others think?

750 sounds better to me than 1000 personally.

I am in favor of 2 cavern layers, For this reason and also 2 as opposed to 1 for the reason that Girlinhat gave.  I'm a fan of flat grasslands as opposed to sheer cliffs.
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Spish

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #116 on: January 09, 2012, 03:27:39 am »

Im pretty sure that less cavern layers make for less thick crust on average, maybe the embark was at high elevation?
It was on the ocean. :-\ The consistently deep flatland embarks and the consistently shallow mountain embarks have got my brain all confuzzled, I'm just going to have to take your word for it.

I love cliffs. Being able to build UP into the mountain is always fun, as is mining out the ramps to create natural barriers, and removing slopes so that the drops are even more extreme. The more cliffs, the better, I say. I've been having a hard time finding good cliffs lately :(

My two cents:
-Could use more volcanoes, at least a few of them in the middle of the ocean.
-Needs more biome variety (everything is hills and forests), and the northern areas ain't hot/sandy/tropical enough.
-One of those deserts should be higher up and closer to the center (so as to be in a hot climate). Maybe bigger (Sahara-esque), savage too (no fantasy world is complete without giant scorpions, in my opinion), and with desert volcano(es) just for the heck of it. Bonus points if the sand actually ends up being red.
-The small bay in the east-middle could stand to be cut off from the ocean (making it into its own unique sea).
-Not enough small/medium good+evil regions. I don't see every biome represented :V

Everything else is just fine.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 03:40:06 am by Spish »
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Eric Blank

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #117 on: January 09, 2012, 04:04:28 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All fully acknowledged! Now how does more erosion = more sheer cliffs work? Counter intuitive, especially for someone working on their geology degree. Typo, or is DF just wierd like that?

With a large world there is plenty of room for landscape and biome variation. The huge valley in the west should provide plenty of flat ground, and the mountains should provide impressive vistas. There's still plenty in-between on the east half of the world. There will definitely be 200 volcanoes, because everyone wants their own pet magma tube and they shouldn't be in short supply.

Oh, and if you'd like to engineer a little area to embark in;
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also note that the tropics will be at the north end of the map and the arctic wastes at the south.

- For Spish: I can rearrange temperature variation in the world gen file for it, so we can have 80 to 90 degree tropics and a 0 to -15 degree arctic (glaciers are fun!) The desert-with-lots-of-cliffs would have to be in the northern quarter of the map near the ocean to achieve desired hot temperatures, but I'll make sure it at least shows up and is bone-dry. Can't control what type of soil it is or even what form of desert, as far as I know.


Also, we need a poll for mineral scarcity variance. But because we're too lazy to use a thread poll, why don't we just post and tally the posts?

options:
0. lowest possible number           - AHHHH the microcline!
1. 500         Very mineral-rich, probably 5-10 different mineral types on a given embark, including various stones like microcline as well as ores.
2. 750         A good compromise.
3. 1000       Moderately more minerals than the default setting. Fairly likely to see at least 4-5 different mineral types.
4. 2500       Default setting.
5. 5000       Metal would likely end up being insanely rare, but your OCD will be pleased.

Add this to your post:

"Mineral scarcity poll: [option number]"



For my vote; Mineral Scarcity Poll: 2.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 04:06:45 am by Eric Blank »
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DwarvenScience

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #118 on: January 09, 2012, 04:46:45 am »

All fully acknowledged! Now how does more erosion = more sheer cliffs work? Counter intuitive, especially for someone working on their geology degree. Typo, or is DF just wierd like that?

i think that in DF erosion cycles cause rivers to dig down into the terrain, therefore no erosion cycles cause flat land. I am not entirely sure and people can feel free to correct me. Im studying medicine so i dont know how erosion works in the real world :D i just assumed hills happen when two mountains love each other very much....

also mineral scarcity poll: 3
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Spish

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Re: Got a neeto idea (want in?)
« Reply #119 on: January 09, 2012, 05:01:49 am »

You're right Blank, less erosion cycles = steeper cliffs. Checked in Magmawiki and confirmed in Fortress Mode. 70-Z level natural walls for the first time in... well... ever :D
"The Stupid Forest" bordering it looks relatively flat, as well.

On that note, I think you should increase the number of Z-levels above ground slightly. Just to give us more freedom to expand upwards. (does that lower FPS?)

You could just look at the earlier posts in the thread and skip the politics altogether. But eh, I'm stickin' with #4.

Quote
- For Spish: I can rearrange temperature variation in the world gen file for it, so we can have 80 to 90 degree tropics and a 0 to -15 degree arctic (glaciers are fun!)
That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking ;D More tundra and glacier would be cool as well.
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