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[Veetor]

Question: Cage traps and weapon traps will affect the adventurers?

[Ferozstein]

Yes to both. Also, avoid cage traps, as currently there's no way to escape from a cage in adventure mode.

[Spish]

Question: Cage traps and weapon traps will affect the adventurers?

If you have it set up as [ADVENTURER_TRAPS:YES] in d_init.txt; which is NO by default.

[scion-of-fenrir]

Yes to both. Also, avoid cage traps, as currently there's no way to escape from a cage in adventure mode.

Honestly, I kind of feel that we should wait to start this thing with the next version - after all, it is, essentially, just us filling an adventure mode with awesome dungeons, and the next update will let us do so much more crazy shit!

[Phantom of The Library]

Yes to both. Also, avoid cage traps, as currently there's no way to escape from a cage in adventure mode.

Honestly, I kind of feel that we should wait to start this thing with the next version - after all, it is, essentially, just us filling an adventure mode with awesome dungeons, and the next update will let us do so much more crazy shit!

We are, this is just the testing rounds to try to see what we might need to mod in when the version comes out, and just make a mini test of the idea in general to make sure the rules are going to work.

[Eric Blank]

Yes to both. Also, avoid cage traps, as currently there's no way to escape from a cage in adventure mode.

Actually;

DS; there should be a rule that prohibits cage traps be left anywhere within a fortress when it dies. Either don't use them or destroy them early on. That bug would kill all the fun.

[DS]

Savvy, here's the updated rule set.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rule #1: A single turn lasts 10 days, beginning the day after the previous save has been made available.
   a) A participant must publicly announce that they have downloaded the save within two days of the beginning of their turn, or their turn is delayed. The participant has the opportunity to take their turn one place later in line so long as they check in within three days of the turn being passed on. If they fail to check-in for their delayed turn, they are skipped.
   b) A participant must upload the save and submit a completed turn survey (see Rule #5) within two days of the end of their turn, or they are skipped. The participant goes to the end of the line, unless they produce the save before the next participant in line announces they have begun.
   c) If a participant is experiencing extenuating circumstances which render them unable to begin or complete their turn, they may be eligible to have their turn delayed, so long as the situation is addressed in advance, and not during their turn.

Rule #2: A participant must add to the world 1 fortress.
   a) Becoming the Mountainhome is prohibited.
   b) Killing of generals, necromancers, titans, civilization leaders, and other notable historical figures is discouraged.
   c) Upon completion, there may be no cage traps in the site. Cage traps may be used during the participants turn, but they must be completely removed before save is submitted.
   d) A participant must publicly announce when the fortress crumbles or is otherwise "complete."
   e) If the participant so chooses, they may add to the world an elven forest retreat, a goblin tower, a kobold cave, or a human town instead of a dwarf fortress. All the rules apply normally to these sites.

Rule #3: Altering the raws and use of third-party utilities (Dfhack, Runesmith, etc.) is restricted.
   a) Certain changes to the raws may be made prior to the commencement of the project, and are to be kept throughout the entire project. (We need to finalize these - more on this later.)
   b) Altering the raws or use of third-party utilities may be allowed in certain situations, all of which are to be discussed and decided upon prior to the turn in which they are implemented.
   c) Use of Dwarf Therapist is, of course, allowed.

Rule #4: Upon completion of their turn, a participant must complete and submit a short survey of their turn, consisting of:
   a) Name and location of fortress (ideally via a screenshot of the embark screen).
   b) Status (reclaimable/forbidden). If the fortress is "reclaimable," then any subsequent participant may attempt to reclaim the site. If the fortress is "forbidden," then subsequent participants are not allowed to interact with the site in any way.
   c) Any further information is optional. Participants are strongly encouraged to submit creative elements (anecdotes, original fiction, maps, a journal, etc.) that can be made available to the community, although such information is ultimately optional. A participant may wish to cultivate an aura of mystery surrounding their fortress, in which case minimal information (or none at all) would be appropriate.
   d) The name, location, and status of the fortress should be provided in the same post in which the save is uploaded (see Rule #1), but the subsequent optional information may be submitted at the participant's leisure.

[Spish]

Messin' around with the new prototype. First of all, why is the save so ungodly huge? And why does it take 10 seconds to load a conversation with a random civilian? (this was also a problem on prototype XI, but here it's even worse).

There used to be human settlements on the southern coast of the island continent before you savagified over the streams, you should consider bringing em back. If only to maintain that goblin-free questing zone.

In allowing gobbos to bring all the cool pets (The Comedic Seducer has access to ogres, giant olms, giant bats, beak dogs, giant cave spiders to name a few), you've also opened them up to the mundane and elfy ones. Shouldn't there be a way to elaborate on their [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] and [USE_CAVE_ANIMALS] tags while denying them things that would fall under [COMMON_DOMESTIC], [USE_GOOD_ANIMALS] and the like?
By the way, ogres only cost 1 goblinbuck

On that note, I'll probably have to test (or better yet someone else, having to do all this modtesting by myself is getting kinda tedious) to see if letting them have pets has any effect on their sieging habits. Like causing them to bring squads of cave crocodiles instead of trolls.

I ordered 6 logs of wood to be acquired from the giving tree, and only got 2 by the time the elf was finished. That seems a bit slow.

[Cellmonk]

I ordered 6 logs of wood to be acquired from the giving tree, and only got 2 by the time the elf was finished. That seems a bit slow.

Somehow I envision massive elvin wood-production sweatshops.

Also: what skill does the log-production workshop use?

[Eric Blank]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Messin' around with the new prototype. First of all, why is the save so ungodly huge? And why does it take 10 seconds to load a conversation with a random civilian? (this was also a problem on prototype XI, but here it's even worse).

There used to be human settlements on the southern coast of the island continent before you savagified over the streams, you should consider bringing em back. If only to maintain that goblin-free questing zone.

In allowing gobbos to bring all the cool pets (The Comedic Seducer has access to ogres, giant olms, giant bats, beak dogs, giant cave spiders to name a few), you've also opened them up to the mundane and elfy ones. Shouldn't there be a way to elaborate on their [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] and [USE_CAVE_ANIMALS] tags while denying them things that would fall under [COMMON_DOMESTIC], [USE_GOOD_ANIMALS] and the like?
By the way, ogres only cost 1 goblinbuck

On that note, I'll probably have to test (or better yet someone else, having to do all this modtesting by myself is getting kinda tedious) to see if letting them have pets has any effect on their sieging habits. Like causing them to bring squads of cave crocodiles instead of trolls.

I ordered 6 logs of wood to be acquired from the giving tree, and only got 2 by the time the elf was finished. That seems a bit slow.

That's a lot to process...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1) I think the size of the file may be because it got a full 500-year worldgen, due to the good graces of keeping at least 95% of the megabeasts alive and my RAM not crapping itself. That could also be why it's a little slower, but I honestly don't know.

2) Unfortunately there have never been any human civilizations on the large central island (i've kept all the maps, and just reviewed all of the ones generated after the switch to the vanilla raws. Not a single human civ.) I still think what you were seeing along the coastlines and on islands were Paklaras from my own mods before I switched to the vanilla raws and started work on getting the civs up and running. If you ever noticed any cities on the mountain ranges that could be used to confirm this, because Cobalds also build cities. They could also have been the beastman civs, but there have definitely been no chances for human civilizations to develope on the island or any cases in which they would have been able to migrate there.

I most definitely will force a grassland or two to show up there, though, and see if there's any chance to get a human civ, because that would be a major advantage to anybody adventuring around there.

3) There's unfortunately no way to divy up the animals the civs get with the elf-tag. As was the problem before adding the elf-tag, goblins wouldn't have ANY sort of animals available.

I'll change the value of ogres though. Were any of the others worth 1 or some similarly low number?

4) I agree that the rest of these schmucks should pick up the save and TEST!
And yeah, having access to more animals has a direct impact on what they utilize in siege forces. They'll send any sort of building destroyer in place of troll squads as far as I've seen. I've experienced tigermen in my own modded game bringing exclusively dragonkin squads, with the majority of their forces being mounted on dragons. It's terrifying.

5) ye, I set the elves' wood collection reaction with a 30% chance of success so you're actually right on the mark there with 33% success, but if that really seems too slow it can definitely be changed. You could actually open the file it's in (reactions_elves.txt) and change it yourself. It's the first number in the product string. The second is the number of products generated.
I actually figured players would likely just set up a dozen or so of these trees and have their population pumping out wood logs like a german machinegun, when even a magical tree couldn't hope to produce a 10 kilo log every 8 hours, so I set the success rate lower. oh well

Oh, and the reaction is dependent on the plant gatherer (herbalist) labor, and thusly trains it. Herbs for the drug gods!


And before I forget, I'll turn in the test run save in a little while. Unfortunately I accomplished absolutely nothing permanent, because the game crashed on 8-10 hours of work and I'm back to a save in year 2.

I can't think of anything important to mention besides the loss of some ☼ARCHITECTURE☼ and !!elves!!
Loved the site though. Some ungodly amount of mineral clutter and waterfall over rivers.

Alright, here it is.

[Spish]

Ah, I most conveniently missed the part where you edited the save into your post. I'll get started on it eventually, but first, some more testing.

My dwarves made a snazzy midnight blue cloak with spines of cow bone coming out of the back, and I stockpile'd it in a small structure made entirely out of windows. I then lair'd the site, abandoned, and reclaimed. Everything was in the same place (even some raw, prepared fish), except for one thing... my awesome cloak was gone.  I further tested this by abandoning another one of my forts (one that had been annihilated and reclaimed with several artifacts), the only artifacts that were still around were the ones that I never took out of the workshops. I was unable to get my workers to move them out of the buildings, and when I deconstructed one of said workshops, the two artifacts that came out were completely invisible for some reason. Then I lair'd, abandoned and reclaimed again, and the two artifacts were gone.

So yeah, apparently any artifacts not inside buildings get poofed out of existence when you end a fortress. (or maybe the dwarves leave with them?) I think we're gonna need that Display Case mod.

3) There's unfortunately no way to divy up the animals the civs get with the elf-tag. As was the problem before adding the elf-tag, goblins wouldn't have ANY sort of animals available.

I'll change the value of ogres though. Were any of the others worth 1 or some similarly low number?

Well there's beak dogs, coming in at 26 goblinbucks. But I quite like that number, personally. I bought 30 and pastured em in the goblin-meeting-hall for fun times

If getting goblins to bring other amminals is so hard, how'd you get them to bring trolls in the first place?

[Eric Blank]

I di nothing to get them to bring trolls, and I'm not quite clear whether that's hardcoded or not anyway (though I suppose I could test...)

[miauw62]

I dont know if this has been said, but if you guys want your forts to have more then two migrant waves, you should have at least one mountain.
Dwarves only settle in neutral mountains, i heard.

[TomIrony]

Should we allow Emergency Reclaims?

Say someone's fortress falls while there's still cage traps or unfinished project areas, should we allow a Reclaim for the sole purpose of fixing things?

Obviously, this wouldn't allow anyone to go beyond their time limit.

Also, if we allow it, I think the Reclaim should be limited to fixing whatever's broke and then re-abandoning.

[Eric Blank]

That sounds like a good idea, yeah. It would demand some announcement, I guess.

And ye there are plenty of mountains.