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Voting closed: January 14, 2012, 06:17:21 pm

[Girlinhat]

Don's got an r1 Smith rS Reforge 3 Highlander Claymore.  It'd be stripped of all these stats if it were made spirit, only the reforge would remain.

[Kaitol]

The problem I'm having with archery is at low levels aiming takes so long and enemies move quite fast, and the larger ones have deceptive range, so you either roll the dice with low odds shots, or stop combat and run away long enough to hide. Anything that takes more than a magnum and a quick normal shot has a decent chance of wrecking me if it can get past my kiting with 50% aim shots.

I've tried using counter, but it doesn't give you enough time to charge a proper shot. Defend is worse. I have a few ideas to overcome this, hopefully, and someone also suggested grabbing some basic magicbolts just to keep stuff back. But still, it's a rough hump to get over.

[krisslanza]

Don's got an r1 Smith rS Reforge 3 Highlander Claymore.  It'd be stripped of all these stats if it were made spirit, only the reforge would remain.

Yeah, because a "Ego Weapon" is it's own weapon. When you turn a weapon into an Ego Weapon, it becomes that Ego Weapon, which doesn't have its stats modified by the base weapon since it's... changing weapons entirely.

This makes total sense in my head.

[Girlinhat]

The problem I'm having with archery is at low levels aiming takes so long and enemies move quite fast, and the larger ones have deceptive range, so you either roll the dice with low odds shots, or stop combat and run away long enough to hide. Anything that takes more than a magnum and a quick normal shot has a decent chance of wrecking me if it can get past my kiting with 50% aim shots.

I've tried using counter, but it doesn't give you enough time to charge a proper shot. Defend is worse. I have a few ideas to overcome this, hopefully, and someone also suggested grabbing some basic magicbolts just to keep stuff back. But still, it's a rough hump to get over.

Magnum Revolver.

Use magnum repeatedly, every time.  Load magnum, fire, and load again.  The knockdown animation is usually so long you can load and aim, and 90% of time the enemy will hesitate slightly as they load a skill or decide how to attack you, and you can reach 90% aim in the time it takes them to get right next to you.  Archery is a deceptively close-range combat skill!

If you're inexperienced, stick with shortbows, specifically the Elven Shortbow which I can produce with slightly better stats.  Shortbows have a much faster aim time than longbows, though a shorter range, and the Elven Shortbow can be upgraded for range comparable to a longbow.  This helps aim time for regular fire, and for Magnum seems to let you load the skill faster, allowing highly efficient Magnum Revolver, as you can easily fire and begin loading the skill again before the animation has fully ended.

When handling ranged combat, the skills you want are Magnum, Bow Mastery, Ranged Combat, and Critical Hit, roughly in order of importance.  Bow and Ranged both add flat damage boosts, which are multiplied when Magnum is used, so they do improve your Magnum damage by degrees.  While Ranged does increase aim speed, it doesn't seem to change Magnum's aim speed, which is why shortbows are so powerful, having faster aim AND load times.

[alexwazer]

I've tried using counter, but it doesn't give you enough time to charge a proper shot. Defend is worse. I have a few ideas to overcome this, hopefully, and someone also suggested grabbing some basic magicbolts just to keep stuff back. But still, it's a rough hump to get over.

I suggested it. The reason is that bows have a delay after counter which makes you waste precious time. Bolt can be charged right after counter (during the animation even), allowing you to slow the enemy or, if you use firebolt, push it back further. And bows can be loaded right after a bolt, without the delay it has with counter. Mabinogi got a lot of things like that where some skill chain together better than others. It's much more efficient than just counter followed by archery.


On the subject of that HLC, I'm still debating. The main reason why I considering using a high grade weapon for ego is that the main bonus provided don't matter all that much. The +2 min/max damage are mostly irrelevant. The max durability isn't really an issue either since you don't constantly use my HLC and when I do, it's usually to smash/defence/smash/repeat which doesn't lower durability all that much. The extra balance is also irrelevant, even when the change to balance comes up, since I'll still have capped balance. So, only the critical rate bonus really makes a difference, but that's only 5% increase.

[Seriyu]

The problem I'm having with archery is at low levels aiming takes so long and enemies move quite fast, and the larger ones have deceptive range, so you either roll the dice with low odds shots, or stop combat and run away long enough to hide. Anything that takes more than a magnum and a quick normal shot has a decent chance of wrecking me if it can get past my kiting with 50% aim shots.

I've tried using counter, but it doesn't give you enough time to charge a proper shot. Defend is worse. I have a few ideas to overcome this, hopefully, and someone also suggested grabbing some basic magicbolts just to keep stuff back. But still, it's a rough hump to get over.

Magnum Revolver.

Use magnum repeatedly, every time.  Load magnum, fire, and load again.  The knockdown animation is usually so long you can load and aim, and 90% of time the enemy will hesitate slightly as they load a skill or decide how to attack you, and you can reach 90% aim in the time it takes them to get right next to you.  Archery is a deceptively close-range combat skill!

If you're inexperienced, stick with shortbows, specifically the Elven Shortbow which I can produce with slightly better stats.  Shortbows have a much faster aim time than longbows, though a shorter range, and the Elven Shortbow can be upgraded for range comparable to a longbow.  This helps aim time for regular fire, and for Magnum seems to let you load the skill faster, allowing highly efficient Magnum Revolver, as you can easily fire and begin loading the skill again before the animation has fully ended.

When handling ranged combat, the skills you want are Magnum, Bow Mastery, Ranged Combat, and Critical Hit, roughly in order of importance.  Bow and Ranged both add flat damage boosts, which are multiplied when Magnum is used, so they do improve your Magnum damage by degrees.  While Ranged does increase aim speed, it doesn't seem to change Magnum's aim speed, which is why shortbows are so powerful, having faster aim AND load times.

As someone that's been doing a bit of archery on the side, as you rank up ranged combat it will eventually aim fast enough (at least with a shortbow) to get some extra damage in after they get KBed from your magnum, before your next magnum if you're fairly close, so it's not to say it's useless. But your main skill is definitely magnum, at least in solo situations. Also the counter -> Load firebolt -> continue magnum is very good advice (You'll see it referred to as fire counter in various wiki guides if you ever come across the term).

If you're a human archer, Arrow Revolver is strictly superior to ranged combat (although it's still worth ranking for the general damage boosts, as bows are rather low on damage in general).

And after all this, while I wouldn't put ranks into melee skills yet or anything, having a dagger and round shield around (if you're an elf) or two daggers (if you're a human) for melee combat if things get hairy is never a bad idea. Of course melee is it's own can of worms, but we can help out there too.

[Girlinhat]

On the subject of that HLC, I'm still debating. The main reason why I considering using a high grade weapon for ego is that the main bonus provided don't matter all that much. The +2 min/max damage are mostly irrelevant. The max durability isn't really an issue either since you don't constantly use my HLC and when I do, it's usually to smash/defence/smash/repeat which doesn't lower durability all that much. The extra balance is also irrelevant, even when the change to balance comes up, since I'll still have capped balance. So, only the critical rate bonus really makes a difference, but that's only 5% increase.

If you make it an ego, that critical bonus disappears.  Ego weapons have their own set of stats, any bonuses provided by crafted or enchanted weapons are LOST.  You're better off using a base stats weapon as your ego.

[alexwazer]

The whole point of turning the HLC into a spirit weapon is to take advantage of the reforge, not the improved stats. If I could reasonably expect to get similar reforge bonus on another weapon, without having to spend millions of gold in game or a large amount of RL money, there would be no such dilemma. I can't reasonably expect that.

[Skyrunner]

When you do repair it, it'll probably set you back a ton. (assuming an HLC is a good, expensive sword)

Is that OK? o_O

[Girlinhat]

HLC sells for 200k minimum (which is why it's absolutely incredible that he found one so high-quality for 175k, I think it was a typo on 1.7mil).  Or repaired through cash shop.

Still, for the durability of an ego (feed it well and it'll have very nice dura) and the low-drain use of windmill and smash, you can get a LOT of damage output for not much cost.  And if you're using that ego to run Hard Daily Shadow Missions, then it'll pay for itself EASY.

[Skyrunner]

Consensus in Korea seems to be that overall ego weapons aren't worth it, what with all the fancy new balance-breaking swords and special upgrades released and the fact that they suck money up like a starved cookie monster, though.
Especially on high end weapons like HLC.

Think of these:  one, mabinogi hasn't been paying attention to balance that much. Two, ego weapons were released at least five years ago, waaaaay back in G1. Three, an ego weapon matches the performance of a fully upgraded normal weapon, but special upgrades surpass it. Four, ego weapons cost money just by keeping it in the open, and repairing one needs a 100 proficiency HLC. >_>

[majikero]

It's why we're putting egos on cheap things like a wooden blade or a stick. Also because its funny.

[Sonlirain]

And it's also why i left poor Urist in my inventory in lieu for a fomor francisca.

[krisslanza]

Consensus in Korea seems to be that overall ego weapons aren't worth it, what with all the fancy new balance-breaking swords and special upgrades released and the fact that they suck money up like a starved cookie monster, though.
Especially on high end weapons like HLC.

Think of these:  one, mabinogi hasn't been paying attention to balance that much. Two, ego weapons were released at least five years ago, waaaaay back in G1. Three, an ego weapon matches the performance of a fully upgraded normal weapon, but special upgrades surpass it. Four, ego weapons cost money just by keeping it in the open, and repairing one needs a 100 proficiency HLC. >_>

Yeah Ego Weapons probably need an update by this point, given they've made normal weapons much more powerful lately.

But you forgot a perk: Ego weapons give you someone to talk to on those long, lonely nights!

[Girlinhat]

Egoes are just a convenient place to sink gems into.  Otherwise, gems are just about waste products.