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Voting closed: January 14, 2012, 06:17:21 pm

[Seriyu]

Also, Solinran, username? I want to at least put your IGN in the OP.

[Sonlirain]

Sonli Giant Male.
Basic Metalurgy
Basic Refining
Sub average mace waving skill.

Also what's the purpouse of harmfull enchants like "farmer" that DECREASE streangth?

[Girlinhat]

There's not much use really, except training Enchanting via burning and re-casting.

[dei]

So is there any way I can be of use at all to the guild, or am I just dead weight?

[Girlinhat]

Improve your DPS through whatever means necessary.  Melee, archery, magic, whatever.  As long as you're throwing damage out and you can keep one enemy busy, you're contributing to dungeon runs.

[Seriyu]

Pretty much. Honestly the 8 man run was an exception, 8 man runs are traditionally just steamrolling everything forever, and also quite rare, so as long as you can keep an enemy busy and kill it in a reasonable time, you're doin fine.

Although Laur's advice is good too if you want to excel.

Also I forgot to update today, I'll add it tomorrow as I kind've forgot where I was.

[Girlinhat]

8 man runs are for when you really want a chest prize because there's more chances to get the good rewards, or for superdifficult dungeons, such as Advanced Hard runs.  Although most of the superdifficult also give good rewards, so more chests will benefit you.

It's also for steamrolling, in case you're running Karu just to get glowing pieces, you can just get a bunch of people and swipe the whole way through without stopping.

[SirAaronIII]

Not sure if I should go treasure hunting some more or if I should commerce all day¹. I'm a teeny bit tired of G1 for now.


Of course I probably would go on dungeon runs if people ask but til then, the choice stands.
¹ I will most likely need someone to come with me, preferably who isn't also doing commerce. If they are, both our damages will be halved which = bad things happening. But then if they don't carry goods, they're essentially just running around the continent and will probably get bored. Oh man, all these decisions.

[etgfrog]

multiple people almost regardless make bandits easier to deal with, even if its just to agro 3 of them and play dead and allow the other person time to kill the ones trying to steal stuff and its still preferable that everyone brings cargo otherwise...the escorts will feel a bit gimped out....

[SirAaronIII]

True. Thinking about it a bit harder, i realize it's actually the same kind of deal as multiaggro monsters vs. players. Even if the damage is low, constant knockbacks and other annoyances will add up for the enemy.

[Ibid Straydrink]

Of course I probably would go on dungeon runs if people ask but til then, the choice stands.
¹ I will most likely need someone to come with me, preferably who isn't also doing commerce. If they are, both our damages will be halved which = bad things happening. But then if they don't carry goods, they're essentially just running around the continent and will probably get bored. Oh man, all these decisions.

If you ever need a little muscle for stuff like this in the future, just give me a ring.

[Seriyu]

So I'm still up due to hijinx, so we'll move on with Dungeon running advice. Finally. Where were we? Oh right.

Aggro Management AKA READ THIS UPDATE.

Aggro (Short for agression, IE a monster beginning to attack you, signified by TWO exclamation points above their head. One is just alert, and doesn't nessacerilly mean it will attack you, but we'll get to that later.) is a major and as a result very important part of a dungeon run. It's important to know what enemies will multiaggro (more then one attacking you), which will single aggro, and how aggro works in general. Monsters with less aggro on them (single) are generally less threatening then multiaggro monsters for this very reason.

Aggro is also the primary reason you bring more people. Multiaggro dungeons are made far far more possible by even just one more person. That's not to say they're impossible to solo, but you've gotta have a really good grip on the combat system (or be a ranged class that can one/two shot the multiaggro monsters) to stand a chance. As a result, generally, to be useful in a dungeon enviroment, you just have to hold aggro on your monster (or monsters) and hold down the fort on them, because you are eating their aggro slot, and as a result, if that particular monster multiaggros, nearby people do not have to worry about it and can focus on killing the one in front of them. You're also helping clear the room faster, and as a result causing people to lose less stamina/mana over the course of a dungeon. Very few monsters change aggro with any regularity, there's only one that comes to mind, Gargoyles, and as you'd expect they are horrible horrible monsters for exactly this reason. Luckily they are very limited to where they spawn.

So let's get to the actual aggro management. First, if you hit a monster, look for a !! above their head in a big white bubble. If it shows up, get some distance via knockback/knockdown usually, and then hit a defensive skill. If they're single aggro, counter or defense will do, if they're multiaggro, and you see another one coming at you at roughly the same speed, windmill is probably the better choice. If you hit both, you knock them both back and as a result buy more time for someone else to help, or generally just keep you from dying in a solo situation. The reason multiaggro is so bad is because your normal defensive skills, defense and counterattack, are very limited in their uses against them. ( If you can't use counterattack, Generally you want to counter first and then defend, because defense always begins loading immediately as you hit the button, but counterattack has to wait for animations to finish. So you counter the first enemy and immediately load defense and block the second.) In multiaggro situations, DO NOT BE A HERO. Don't rush out to revive people, you will pull more monsters to them and die, thereby making it harder for other people to revive them, and also tipping the odds in your favor. AGAIN, YOUR LIFE IS PRECIOUS IF YOU HAVE EVEN A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF THE COMBAT SYSTEM. DON'T ASSUME YOU CAN JUST RUSH OUT AND TRY TO SAVE PEOPLE AND NOT CAUSE TROUBLE TO OTHERS WHEN YOU DIE. IF YOU ARE EATING AN AGGRO SLOT AND HOLDING OFF THE ENEMY, CONGRATULATIONS, YOU ARE HELPING IN AN IRREPLACEABLE WAY.

Anyway. If you see a single ! after you hit them, they are alerted, not aggroing (very few monsters do this, but some will), and you generally have time for a second attack after the first combo/smash. But don't dawdle, they'll prolly be on your sooner or later. Push the advantage and all that.

A note, if you are fighting an enemy that is currently aggroed on to you, and another monster acts like it's going to attack, but never does, that is called Semi Multi Aggro. What that means is the other enemy is aware of you, but not attacking. It will generally immediately attack you after you kill the first enemy, even though you didn't hit it. Watch for it.

Aggro speed is another factor, some monsters aggro slower then others. Animals will typically aggro slower then monsters (think goblins/kobolds), and generally the bigger and meaner a monster is, the faster it will aggro, although there are exceptions. Monsters with notable aggro speed are golems, for instance, and this is why you see people pulling the skeletons away from the golem and killing them, rather then running in and hoping they kill the skeleton first. Could they kill them in one support shotted bash? Probably. But there's no reason to take that risk.

So, you've killed your monster and other people are preoccupied with their own, what do you do? Feel free to help, but BE AWARE OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO THE AGGRO. Generally pulling an enemy away from someone is never a bad thing, but be aware that it can and often does happen. If you hit an enemy attacking another person, that enemy will lock onto you, usually, sometimes without a !! sign. If you're not sure, load a defensive skill. If it goes past you and attacks the guy it was attacking previously, well, he was probably ready for it anyway, and again YOU ARE A LOT MORE VALUABLE ALIVE THEN DEAD.

Iiiiii believe that is it. So that sums up most aggro quirks, and I will repeat again. YOU ARE A LOT MORE VALUABLE ALIVE THEN DEAD. DO NOT TAKE UNNECESSARY RISKS.

[Girlinhat]

And as an extension of this, know your aggro skills.  Direct attacks pretty much always cause aggro.  If you attack, smash, charge, icebolt, etc, then they'll aggro you.  Any number of monsters will aggro once you attack them.  Even if a monster is single aggro, if you attack three of them at a time they'll all come at you.  So generally avoid spreading damage too wide.

And know your non-aggro skills.  Windmill will hit a lot of monsters, but it causes no aggro.  Similarly, splash damage on high ranked smash or magnum shot will not cause multi aggro, nor will crash shot or lightning bolt.  These skills can hit any number of monsters without causing any additional aggro.  With exceptions.  Certain types of snakes in particular, and golden mask ghosts, are prone to aggro if you hit them with windmill.  Golden mask ghosts in specific, will aggro you if they're using Defense and you hit them with a windmill.  Which is neat, because GMGs normally have no aggro.  They will "alert" and they will follow around you loading skills (like those foxes at Tir) but they will never begin attacking until they're hit first.  Mirage missile will cause aggro on the creature hit, but the spreading poison causes no aggro ever.

Intermediate magic of all types, and Enthralling Performance (bard skill learned in Hamlet's quest line) will ALWAYS cause every monster to aggro you.

What does this mean?
Barri - Spam windmill, assault slash, counterattack, more windmill, crash shot, etc. - full on DPS
Ciar - Smash, windmill, mirage missile, crash shot, etc. - use AOE skills carefully
Karu Glowing - Smash, magnum, mirage, support shot, counterattack, etc. very carefully. - use no AOE at all.

[Sonlirain]

So i was running through Alby dungeon (i decded to enchant all my junk with + 1% crit and farm some fomor scrolls while i'm at it) and bam. a advanced 3 man invite.
I go a bit furthen and bam another one... this time basic.

Well i'll be trying the 1 man dungeon pass now.

I'd do the 3 man with someone but i think i should wait with it till i get plate armor and a better mace.
(meaning i'll have to throw it into a garbage can because it has 2 hours left)

Update:
Got killed in Alby Basic by swarming bats.
Got to level 25.
Leveled yup weaving to get that cheap dex bonus (i guess 2 dex is quite good for 1 AP).
Found a 3 cm diamond

[Carcanken]

This game was awesome last time I played it.

The only sad thing was that patching never seemed to work for me, always some error when I try to play.


Trying again anyhow, I really hope it will work.