Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

For

0 (0%)

Serious

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: January 14, 2012, 06:17:21 pm

[Ozyton]

Block beats normal attack. Windmill beats everything if you do it right.

I think defense will prevent you from being knocked down/back by windmill.

[majikero]

Never tried to hit a blocking enemy with Windmill before, I only use it to kill Mimics and an alternative to counter.

[Seriyu]

Ooh, that reminds me, you can turn off the "run towards enemies when you load a skill" thing, by finding the "auto use skills" checkbox in the options. It's something like that, and helps a lot for ranged attackers. And honestly for melee attackers too.

And yes, defense keeps things from being knocked down by windmill.

Rock paper scissors is the base, but there's more then that to it, and as tomarrow's thing will show, using smash for only breaking defense is a horrible waste. Most ranged fighters won't have to worry about that though.

And while I need the advanced magic for mana crystalization eventually, I somehow think that's not what you're talkin about. :p

[Ozyton]

Running away is a good tactic for archers on enemies using defense =3

[Seriyu]

Yeah, that's another point, there's nothing wrong with countering an enemy then running away until the counter reloads. Elves are better at it but humans can usually make it work too :p

There's a better alternative to that but we'll be going over that tomorrow.

[Skyrunner]

Skill Optimization Guide..ish Thing
Which Skills Do What
One thing to note: Most skills give permanent bonuses to stats, most of them at higher ranks. This could be an incentive to max out all the relevant skills of your needed stat, but be warned: many skills only offer bonus points at high ranks.

Disclaimer: This guide is NOT telling you to never put points into some skills. It is merely sharing which skills are better to put points in earlier.
Disclaimer: Some stats may be different from race to race, especially AP.


Leap Attack—Str + 17, uses 201 AP.  Bonuses rank 9 ~
    Personally, I don't recommend putting points in this skill over other skills like Smash. You get a humdrum handful of permanent Str, and 200% damage at rank 1, but you might as well use Smash. Especially since Leap Attack is rather hard to train, and has limited usage.

Charge (Assault?) — Stamina + 45, Str + 13. Uses 207 AP. Bonuses Stamina every rank, Str 9~
    Another "meh" skill that is better to put off until later. You can negate some damage of ranged attacks while charging, and the more ranks you put in the further you can charge. At rank 1, you negate 60% of ranged damage and attack with 150% damage.

Defense—Life +41, +15 to base Defense, uses 205 AP. Bonuses every rank.
  Defense is a rather nifty skill, in that in increases your base Defense and is easy to train. You may note that it doesn't have challenge ratings (ie, "Kill one BOSS monster"). This means you can throw a rock to piss off a white spider and just keep on defending until you rank up. At rank 1, you increase your Defense by 55, and Protection by 25% for a successful Defense.

Throw Attack—Str + 13, Will + 19, 148 AP. Str from rank 9, Will every rank.
  I never did a Giant, so I can't tell you how awesome or not this skill is. At rank 1 you hit with 900% damage.

Lance Charge—Str + 21, Will + 21, 415 AP. Str & Will from rank 9.
  This is a moderately expensive skill. Cheap skills cost roughly 200, moderate 400, and expensive 600 (most intermediate magic) to master. I never used any Lance skills, so I can't comment.

Lance Counter—Dex + 11, 255 AP. Dex from rank 9.
  Same.

Ranged Combat Mastery—Dex + 50, Str + 6. 187 AP. Dex every rank, Str from rank 6.
  You be an archer? If you no put this, you very sad.
  *cough* Anyways, you get fifty Dex and +10 min +25 max to damage, ranged. You need this. If only for the Dex. But if you're really going to work, DON'T raise RCM first. You would have to do Refining first, because Refining has stupid failure training, which gets harder with higher Dex. Also, elfs need 279 AP to get RCM to rank 1, and only get 22 Dex for that effort. Devcat does not like elfs.

Magnum Shot—Dex + 18, 232 AP. Dex from rank 9.
  The Smash of archers. A must have. You deal 500% damage at rank 1, and always knock over enemies, just like Smash. Even ones with Natural Shield. However, if they're using Defense, they don't get knocked over. Elfs need 235 AP to get the same effect. Magnum Shot also loads faster from rank 9, taking 1.5 seconds instead of 2 for humans. Elfs load it faster than humans, 1.5 until A, 1 second until 6, and 0.5 from 5. So... Devcat doesn't hate elfs too much.

Mirage Missile—Elf only. Dex + 23 Int + 14. 201 AP. Dex every rank, Int from A.
  Cheap and powerful. If you're an elf, you want at least an F in MM.

Stomp—Stamina + 31, Str + 31, 152 AP. Bonus every rank.
  Yes. Trains fast and is cheap, and gives much strength. Giants only.

Support Shot—Dex + 20. 181 AP. Every rank bonus.
  The good thing about SS is that it not only doesn't break the comboing of a meleeing friend, but that it also increases the next melee hit's damage. 20% at F, 70% at 1.

Smash—Str + 8, Will + 8. 215 AP & bonuses from 8.
  The bread and butter of human melee combat is all in Smash. It's the primary damage-dealer. You hit at 500% damage at 1.

Arrow Revolver—Str +8, Dex+30. Str from 8, Dex every rank. 214 AP
  The only reason human archers haven't disappeared from the face of the earth is because Arrow Revolver! It's Human only, and allows you to quickly shoot a bunch of arrows at a target.

Windmill—Str + 30, Will + 50. Both every rank. 209 AP
  An excellent skill. The range of Windmill increases at 9, 5, 2. The difference between 9 and 2 is really huge. The 250% damage, which ignores protection bonus, is prone to critical hits.
Actually, I think after the nerfing of Windmill, it doesn't ignore protection.

Counterattack—Dex + 15, every rank. AP 173
  The harder the foe was hitting you, the harder you hit him. At rank 1 you deal twice the foe's and 150% your own damage, with a 10% enhanced critical chance. Though you get little in the way of stat bonuses, this is a nice skill to use, especially in the later dungeons where every hit has the potential to kill you on a critical.

Crash Shot—Mana + 16, Dex + 31. 490 AP. Mana from 9, Dex every rank.
  Girlin testifies to the power of Crash Shot. CS also increases the range it leaps to and the number of shards. Strangely, only Crash Shot has the shooter firing from a traditional archer pose.

Final Hit—Str + 46, Will + 13. 414 AP.
  Human only. Using two swords you become a fairly invincible powerhouse of destruction. The higher the rank, the further you can TP, and the longer you stay in Final Hit mode. Final Hit enables you to strike without regard for other pesky skills like Counterattack; it's also hard to get because of the various pages, quests, and Final Attack dungeon. If you can get it, get it!

Final Shot—Stamina +18, Dex+41, 414 AP
  Elf only. Final Hit with arrows. You aim faster in Final Shot mode. Final Shot is relatively easier to get than Final Hit. Still, the dungeon for it is pretty harsh, with multi-aggro and lots of monsters. Final Shot is best for spamming Magnum Shot. Not as awesome as Final Hit, but still fairly useful.

Evasion—Dex 4, from rank 4. 91 AP.
  I don't know about this one. It's sorta useful, but not really. No real bonuses, a cheap 91 AP, limited usage. You can dodge arrows and bolts but have to evade at the correct timing. A niche skill.

Melee Combat Master—Str + 42, Dex + 10. 230 AP.
  A must-have, but preferably at a later date. It increases damage by 8 min 18 max, and adds 150 HP. The problem with raising MCM early is that it makes other skills' training hard. A high MCM makes monsters look like AWFUL when they used to be BOSS, or even -blank- instead of BOSS.

Critical Hit—+45 Will. 132 AP.
  Unlike most other games, raising Critical Hit doesn't increase the chances of a crit, but increases the damage resulting from it.

Various Weapon Masteries: + 19 to either Str or Dex, and usually cost around 190. Same reason to put AP into Mastery skills as MCM, and same cons, too. Archers must put points into Bow Mastery, though, because bows have weaker damage than their melee cousins.


I'll do Life and Magic skills later. I hope this long post actually helps people, because I have a creeping suspicion that all this information is already somewhere on the net.

[Seriyu]

I'm sure it is, but having it all localized is nice. 

Good stuff. Giant ranged attack is nice, but it's definitely not a replacement for say, a bow. There's some stuff you just don't wanna get close to, even as a giant, and ranged attack has a lot higher range then alchemy, which is the only other decent alternative for a ranged option for giants. I personally go with alchemy, but that's mostly due to space constraints on atlatls and javelins.

[Skyrunner]

Maybe you should link all these guides in the OP so people can find them later?

[Seriyu]

Yeah I need to get around to doing that. I'll do it the day after tomorrow, so I can finish the combat segment stuff.

[Errol]

Decided to give MMORPGs one more shot. Registered for this.
Being based in EU might not help matters, though.

[Seriyu]

If you can get into the game don't worry too much about framerate, pretty much everyone lags at least a little in this game. Ozy's got some pretty wierd/bad lag despite having an excellent connection and he still does fine.



Advanced Melee Combat!

Alrighty, so you want to "main" melee combat, but you really don't know how beyond how to three hit combo and use skills, and have no idea where to go from here. Don't worry, mabinogi explains itself poorly, and it's a common point to get stuck on.

We'll start out with a basic tactic that pretty much anyone, even giants, can use as a stalling manuever, magic counter.

First, get into a situation where you can successfully counter. Immediately after the enemy attacks you and gets countered, load ice bolt. When the enemy starts getting up, and NOT BEFORE, hit it with the ice bolt. THis will stun it and allow you to load counter. Which will allow you to load ice bolt, which will allow you to load counter, and so on. This can also be done with fire bolt for enemies with mana deflector, although it's a bit harder for non magic intensive people to maintain. Most can still manage a few rounds of it at least.

Another stalling maneuver for people without magic, somehow, or people that just have way more stamina then mana, countermill.

Like magic counter, get into a situation where you can counter. When you counter, load windmill, and fire it off when the enemy is in range. Then load counter. Then load windmill. etc.

Now, something that, even in a situation where you lack Stamina, which you should always try to avoid, by the way, you can add some sort of damage to your basic attacks (additionally, it's something you can add to anything that involves a basic combo, so). N+1!

Now, there are two ways to do this. Hit the enemy up until your second to last hit, then delay the hit for a little bit. Don't let the enemy come out of stun, but delay it as long as you feel is safe, then hit him again. This will give you an extra hit, because that delay caused the knockback meter to get enough space for another hit in it. If you have trouble getting the timing, another way to do this is to delay every hit a little bit. This works much better on faster weapons. The effect from this really isn't amazing, but if you're in a fight with a tough enemy you're going to need to add all the damage you can.

Yet more in the field of "enhanced combos", N+smash , or alternately, N+1+smash.

Do a combo, wait until the second to last hit (you can also do N+1 for an extra hit), then load smash and immediately hit him with it. This is easier with slow weapons, and with knuckles the timing is pinpoint precise, but it's still possible. To just get this out of the way, you can also do this with windmill. Combo (N+1 if you like), load windmill, fire windmill. It's nice for when enemies are in windmill range nearby.

Now, let's move on to team tactics.

First up, the most common team tactic, and something you'll see used a lot in B12 runs (and really any dungeon run), millwall.

First, you need at least one windmiller, preferably two, and at least one ranged attacker. The ranged attacker situates himself in range of the enemy, probably a boss, and the windmill user moves in front of him. THe ranged attacker hits the boss, and instead of taking off, stays put and loads another shot. He continues firing on the boss until it reaches in range of the windmiller, who bashes him with windmill, causing it to be knocked back. And the cycle repeats. Ideally the monster never targets the windimiller, since the ranged attacker is keeping the pressure up, which makes it possible for the windmiller to easily windmill the boss. Windmill windmill windmill.

Now for another thing you probably won't see often, but can still work if you're ever in such a situation Smashmill.

First, the boss must be against a wall. This is kind've the main issue with it. One person smashes the boss, the other person windmills the boss, the other person smashes the boss, etc. This should keep the boss locked down long enough for the high damage of smash and windmill to kill it off. Timing is very finnicky, be warned.

That should do it for now, although I feel like I'm missing something. There's other stuff but I feel most of it is of questionable usefulness.

Also, don't be afraid to play with skills and make your own combinations, it's certainly possible. I've come up with a thing that as far as I'm aware isn't used widely by other people (N+(1+)smash+Assault Slash+Windmill) and xandak had an idea for something although I never tested it. (Charge+N(+1)+smash/windmill)

So yeah, that's that. I'll FINALLY get the OP table of contents hooked up tomorrow.

[Ozyton]

Decided to give MMORPGs one more shot. Registered for this.
Being based in EU might not help matters, though.

Having another lag buddy would be swell, we can suffer together =)

Hit the enemy up until your second to last hit, then delay the hit for a little bit. Don't let the enemy come out of stun, but delay it as long as you feel is safe, then hit him again.

This confused me for a long while until I saw an enemy actually do it to me. What you're doing is attacking once, then waiting for your character to reset back from the attack animation which is shorter than the enemy's stun time. Then you continue with your combo. You can't do it with 1 hit weapons for obvious reasons.

N+1 is a little different for dual wielding, but since I don't dual wield I don't quite know how it works. You basically get almost twice as many hits than normal.

[Seriyu]

Yep, dual weidling you get twice the hits on every hit but the last one. N+1 still works, but the timing might be finnicky? I dunno, as a giant I can't really dual weild. I can dual wield maces, but eh.

[Skyrunner]

Actually, N+1 wielding is very good with dual weapons too. It's basicallyexactly the same. With two 2 hit broad swords, for example, you hit twice, wait a bit, then hit twice again and finish with both.

Also, you get 2 hits for every attack when dual wielding, even the last one. It looks like it doesn't , but it does. I'm pretty sure two damage numbers appear. That's why dual wielding rocks xD Who needs a shield anyways?

I think some people did a experiment to check if left/right matters, but I don't remember the result.

N+1 hitting is dangerous, for 2 hit weapons while dual wielding >.> It often doesn't pay off, in my experience.

[Seriyu]

As someone that uses a Vales Great Sword (only one weapon, but still, as you said, it's apparently similar enough :p) it can be a little tricky, but I wouldn't really call it hard. Just takes some getting used to. Now knuckles, I have no idea how anyone manages that.