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Author Topic: Mabinogi-On Steam! Close combat revamp!  (Read 379832 times)

Seriyu

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #345 on: July 05, 2012, 11:41:48 pm »

Okay, let's sum up the combat changes. It's not HORRIBLE, but there are a few bits.

Melee: This category is the most widely changed. Most melee skills that don't have range (IE, most things but stomp and probably throwing attack), now no longer have a load time. It's like, half a second. Cooldown is still there, and still is what will get you mauled most of the time. I did a few raft runs with alexwazer and I can confirm shit will still murder you if it multiaggros you, or if you're facing down a group of ranged enemies and you don't know what you're doing. Stuff like N+bash is now possible, much to my joy as a giant.

Ranged: Alright, Laur (girlinhat) and I did some testing (which is shorthand for Laur shot me full of arrows repeatedly), and the current idea is, you will have to relearn archery. Using the keyboard is much easier, using the mouse is much harder, Zero Shot is harder, it allows you to do more fancy stuff, etc. Single target damage may very well be a significant buff once you get used to it, mobs have become harder to deal with. Skills seem to be more important, as much like melee skills, they have no charge up time. So if you need something out of your face, loading magnum shot is probably your best bet, etc. Summary: Worry less about your normal arrow shots, and more about your skills. Also see below this post for Laur's opinion. A lot more detailed.

Magic: The least changed. As far as I'm aware, there aren't any readily noticible changes. They still have load times, they still have cooldowns, advanced magic will still throw you into the wall head first if you let it, it's all there.

Misc: A new interface bit. Details are spotty, basically all I know is that when you use smash, it'll run you straight forward and attack the thing you have targeted. Mostly something to get used to, in my opinion, although I can see where it'd be an issue. Luckily, you can turn it off. Alexwazer also reported he casted Thunder when he didn't press the button, although it only happened once so it may have just been lag or something.

Also, some neat stuff. Giants and Elves can now do G1 - G3. Annnd the Giants vs Elves thing is now players only, elves can just wander into giant town and use the NPC's all they like. Doesn't make a lot of sense plot wise, but not really a terrible thing.

So all in all, it seems pretty nice. The learning curve on melee is a bit shallower, although it still doesn't teach you anything advanced. It's a bit nasty for archers, the zero shot change means you've gotta adjust to the new zero shot, or figure some other trick out. Mages are mostly uneffected, but it wasn't exactly comprehensive testing. I haven't tried knuckles out, so I can't speak for them.

I am optimistic about this patch, it does make the game a BIT easier, but it's still a very hard game in later dungeons. No amount of load time decrease will save you from peaca ghosts. An excellent time to get into mabinogi, especially if you're interested in melee.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 01:34:33 am by Seriyu »
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alexwazer

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #346 on: July 05, 2012, 11:57:57 pm »

Not much to add to what Seriyu said.

Overall combat is not so different: a few new combos possible (or easier to do) and a few things harder, mostly you need to wait for cooldown to load a skill instead of loading it right after using previous one... nothing a clicking spam can't handle. Ranged might be a bit harder to zero shot, but you can easy point blank magnum and other skills now, so it kinda balance for it.

Too tired to get into more details, but anyway Seriyu covered the major points already.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #347 on: July 06, 2012, 12:43:30 am »

Archery has changed entirely.  I used to do zero shot and regular barrages by double clicking rapidly.  That would be "click, aim, click->click, aim, click->click, aim, click->click" until dead.  This would very quickly fire my bow and then notch another arrow to be fired.

Except now the cooldown time works weird.  Although it shows a very brief "grey" moment, you actually can't notch another arrow until the animation ends.  In fact you can't even load the skill.  Normally you can pre-load a skill while the previous skill's animation was still going.  It would show a smaller skill icon that was semi-transparent, and once the animation ended it would become a large flashing icon as it charged, and then solid when it was ready to use.  NOW, with archery at least, if you fire your bow and try to fire again, you don't get the mini-icon and pre-load.  You can't use Ranged Attack again until the firing animation is finished.  This results in a terribly terribly TERRIBLY slow fire speed.

Unless... you abuse the other side of things.  Since skills no longer have chargeup times, that means previously nonviable skills become instant.  Magnum took a moment to charge up, but it was possible to magnum-spam and defeat an enemy.  Now magnum is instant-load and you just have to aim.  Similarly, previously difficult skills like mirage missile and crash shot have become instant-load.  Mirage had a long chargeup time, and crash shot had such a massive load time that it was unusable in combat, but great if you had a controlled situation.  NOW, you can quickly throw out mirage, followed by magnum to throw them back, and trailed by crash to keep them stalled a little and knocked back further.  By that time, magnum is probably ready again, and then mirage will be ready as well...

Ranged combat has definitely changed from a hail of arrows to a series of cannon shots.  The flow of skills is much more like a traditional MMO where you can hotkey and go along the keyboard line, but to get maximum effectiveness you'll need to be aware of your cooldown timers and your knockback, same as ever.  Smash and Crash will both knockback.  Mirage and Normal will stall, and can knock back an already staggered enemy.  Support shot can buy you an extra moment while another skill loads.

In a duel with Seriyu, I would set my archery skills to hotkeys, and go "2, aim, 2->3, aim, 3->4, aim, 4->2, aim, 2->3" and so on, cycling through different skills.  I'm not using the mouse here because you can fire skills from the keyboard if you use the hotkey of an already active skill.  That's nice as well, no more of this target-clicking nonsense.  It's less effective for multi-aggro situations, but for single-enemy smackdowns it'll let you use a wider variety of skills quicker that might have been difficult otherwise.  Crash shot was never a mid-combat skill, but without the huge load time it's now possible to use one of my highest ranked skills frequently.

I'm still a little undecided.  In archery terms, the changes have potentially given more and more varied DPS, but at the same time has sacrificed a bit of what it means to be an archer.  The frantic zero-shot isn't really possible anymore.  Instead you have the backbone of the traditional Korean MMO, hotkeys and going one number to the next and back to the start again.

Seriyu

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #348 on: July 06, 2012, 05:27:55 pm »

And hopefully the last big fancy post, the set of skills for knuckles.

First of all, all of these skills can only be used with knuckles. For most of them it makes sense, but a couple would be VERY USEFUL without knuckles, and you just can't use them without knuckles. Kinda lame. Maybe they'll revert it. Nexon's been getting better about these things. On to the skills.

First you need to know, knuckles use a "combo" system. This is basically handholding, but it also results in some of the nicest animation I've seen in mabinogi since assault slash. And on top of this, you don't have to use the combos stated, you can load whatever skill you want whenever, as long as it's not using the combo buttons.

Second general knuckle knowledge, knuckles reduce the range of windmill, and decrease the load time of counterattack (Not really, the combat revamp gave normal counterattack an 0.5 second load time too so this is moot now)

First chain skills, Dashing Strike and Focused Fist. Let's look at the similarities. Both of these basically "blink" you towards an enemy. Both are still effected by windmill. The first, Dashing Strike, walks you towards the enemy, until you get in certain range, then you blink forward and hit the dude. It'll act like assault and keep you from being flinched out of it by magic and ranged attacks, and also will intercept a basic melee attack. Windmill still gets you, I think smash still gets you if they can manage to land it. It does not have even half the range of assault, however, so it's pretty useless for eating a ranged attack. Maybe it gets better with levels. Pretty straightforward. The second is a teensy bit more complex, and probably as complex as the knuckle skills get honestly. Focused fist acts basically like blaze, except after you release the chargeup button, you blink forward, like dashing strike, and slam into the dude. This also inflicts a debuff that reduces defense and protection.

Now, once you perform one of them, you can either press F1, or F2, or load a new skill.

If you press F1, you'll use Spinning uppercut. Single hit, and lowers defense and protection like Focused Fist. Pretty basic.

If you press F2, you'll use Somersault kick. Three hits, has a small chance to "daze" an enemy, preventing it from using magic or alchemy. Handy.

Both of the chain two skills that we just went over leave you open for a pretty decent amount of time. A second or two at least. Once you execute one of them, you can press F1 or F2 again, or load any other skill. This is probably prime time to use a non knuckle exclusive skill, but we'll get to that.

If you press F1 AGAIN, you'll use drop kick. This will send the opponent FLYING backwords a pretty nice distance, huge dust cloud, the chain 3 skills basically make you look like a huge badass. If the enemy hits anything with its hitbox, it'll damage it and knock it back too. Heavy stander can cancel this "mega-knockback". The enemy you are atacking can't hit you out of it, but any other enemy nearby can. Unless you're a giant, without chain mastery (a knuckle skill) at rank 9 or higher, you can't use heavy armor with this skill. Once you have chain mastery up there, you can do it for reduced damage.

If you press F2 again, you'll use pummel. You knock the dude backwords a good distance, then jump on him, and well, pummel him. A lot of damage, but leaves you open for a good long while. Advanced Heavy Stander keeps you from using this skill at all. There are three parts of the animation, the knuckles take durability damage for each specific part, not each hit. Criticals are calculated seperately for each part. If the enemy dies in one part, it will end on that one. Probably does more damage then drop kick, but also leaves you open far longer, at least 2-3 seconds. Maybe more.

If you go all the way to tier three, the enemy is miles away from you and it is prime time to switch weapons and plink at him, or load a defensive skill. The opportunity for inter-skill tree combos has ended by that point. Let's move onto the last two skills.

Tumble. If you have knuckles equipped, you leap backwards a good distance. It's a pretty good way to gain some distance, but again, knuckles only. Kinda lame.

Respite. You sit down and regenerate HP and Stamina for a short period of time. If you're interrupted you don't get any of it, and if you use magic or alchemy afterwords, it'll take 25% hp and stamina away from you. At rank 9 and above it has a chance to remove poison, for how often you encounter it. Has a two minute long cooldown. Good for solo dungeon runs I'd imagine. Doesn't repair wounds obviously. Again, need knuckles. Dumb, but whatcha gonna do.

I haven't gone over chain mastery, but it's a pretty generic "raise damage/lower cooldown for chained skills" thing.

In general, for most of these skills, if there's a penalty, it's for elves. Bonuses are for giants. Giant friendly, but not quite as much as lances. If you're using light armor you're fine as far as major penalties go.

And that's knuckles. It seems like an easier way to get into melee combat without having to learn the mechanics of skills, probably does more damage then weapon skill combat (I dunno, N+smash is actually pretty hefty for single target damage), but is limited to one dude, and leaves you open for a loooong time. Less flexible and bad defensively, but nice damage. Probably good for soloing.

Seriyu

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #349 on: July 07, 2012, 02:06:22 am »

Minor bump, there's been a patch, and they added butler/maid "pets" to the cash shop. I heard someone ask about it in the steam chat so I figured I'd bump the thread about it.

EDIT: Unfortunately the server is still eating hotkeys.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 02:13:38 am by Seriyu »
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Ozyton

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #350 on: July 07, 2012, 11:00:39 am »

Every time I think I have archery figured out it seems to act differently from what I expect >_>

Seriyu

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #351 on: July 07, 2012, 09:55:25 pm »

You'll get there. Once you figure it out it's a pretty devastating skill set, even if it's now a bit lacking in defense.

Also, to people that are on the fence, come into the steam chat! It's not often blazing with activity, but you can ask questions, and people are happy to answer. It's a friendly bunch. Come onnnnnn do it.

I'll be posting some screenshots sooner or later, also, to perhaps get this thread a bit more active.

alexwazer

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #352 on: July 07, 2012, 11:47:00 pm »

I've spent several hours playing today, so after fighting lots of bandits ambushes and dozens of ancients I now have a much better feel of the new combat mechanics.

Overall, melee was considerably changed while at the same time allowing people to just keep playing pretty much the same way they used to. Everything that was possible before the update remains possible and is usually easier. A few things are possible now that were not previously. Seriyu already mentionned using N + Smash (it's awesome!), but other combos are possible: N/Smash/Windmill + Final Hit, ice-smash (similar to ice-counter), Assault-Smash. These tend to make combat goes faster since you can use skills with higher damage output than what was possible (depending on skills' rank). Nearly instant skill loading also makes fighting large and/or fast moving enemies (Bears, Bears and Bears... elephants too) much easier since you can run away to keep your distance while waiting for defense, counter or windmill cooldown and load those only at the last second.

Melee combat is easier than it was when fighting a single target, possibly too easy for some people (it's possible to load counter DURING an enemy attack chain and thus interrupt it). However, the real challenge in combat was never while fighting a single target, but multiple. That's just as bad/hard as it was or pretty close. I actually like the changes to melee.
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Rose

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #353 on: July 08, 2012, 12:47:55 am »

I'm interested in playing, but not interested enough to find a working proxy to let me play outside the US
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quinnr

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #354 on: July 08, 2012, 12:57:46 am »

Hmm, does anyone know how much space it takes up after the install? Running low on space but would like to check it out.
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Seriyu

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #355 on: July 08, 2012, 01:09:55 am »

I got 2,575 MB from a random "answers" website, and 1.2 GB from wikipedia. Maybe they're the same amount, I keep forgetting how much MB = however much GB or whathaveyou. I'd go with wikipedia on this, though.

Ozyton

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #356 on: July 08, 2012, 01:41:49 am »

My Mabinogi folder is 2.7gb

1000mb is about 1gb, and 1000gb is about 1tb

Seriyu

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #357 on: July 08, 2012, 01:46:40 am »

I guess the wikipedia article is out of date then. Noted. :P

Just a reminder to drop by the steam chat if you do end up getting it installed. It'll be easier to get help that way, even if the first day or so of the game is fairly simple.

quinnr

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #358 on: July 08, 2012, 01:50:03 am »

My Mabinogi folder is 2.7gb

1000mb is about 1gb, and 1000gb is about 1tb

Alright, thanks. Will see if I can get it on then :)
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Ozyton

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Re: Mabinogi - Now with a B12 guild!
« Reply #359 on: July 08, 2012, 02:04:58 am »

I guess the wikipedia article is out of date then. Noted. :P

Nope, I don't know why they did it but 1000mb is actually slighter smaller than a gb. Don't ask me, that's just the way they made it. I usually just do a bit of rounding.

I was going to play more today but my brother got drunk and wanted to do shit, oh well.
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