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[nenjin]

I find it interesting how people don't like a game that comes out finished and doesn't need/get expansions. Also how people complain about games not being finished when they come out. What about if the Castle Story people just released a really good game with multiplayer support and made sure it was stable? Why is it a bad thing if they don't constantly add content?

Caveat: If it's an amazing sandbox game loaded with content, I won't call as much for more content post-release.

But it's a rare indie game that actually releases with a lot of content. Just take a look around at all the free games people made out of their desire to make a game and make it the way they wanted to. Those things go on updated for years, but they rarely start out as fleshed out games.

And personally, I'm getting a little tired of "indie" being synonymous with "$10 cheapie you buy on Steam and is good for 10 hours." Those aren't the kind of projects I want to back. And when amateurs get more money than they ever could have dreamed of being thrown at them for a simple prototype, I think it behooves them to do justice to that level of enthusiasm by sticking with their product, growing it, growing the fan base and making the game something more than a 10 hour romp of simple fun.

Riling up the internet, making your money and then bailing out is what publishers and professional dev houses do, the supposed "evil" that Kickstarter and indie development is supposed to be working against. So when people peg the release product low, it makes me question the sanity of fans as it relates to their money. It's like, really? You're going to actual settle for less?

And lastly....it's a sandbox. Most sandboxes that don't get updated in some way get played in, urinated in and then left to bake in the heat of the sun. For a fan-driven campaign, I think that's kind of a travesty.

To be fair, they haven't promised anything more than a release. And as long as they don't promise more than that, I can't really complain. But I don't want to get sold a vision that holds out as long as it takes for money to get into the bank. I can think of very few tiny titles that have given me metric tons of enjoyment, disproportionate to their size. So when I'm backing them, I want to be backing the start of a game with a long life.....not a doodle, a time-waster or a learning experience.

Also when I compare the quality of the games made by people with absolutely no financial backing, it makes me judge the quality and vision of these run-away successes much more critically. With $300k+, they have enough to support that thing, by their own math for another 4 years. Put another way. Do you think it's possible for a pair of amateurs to really give you $300k worth in a tiny game of limited scope that never gets updated? Or do you end up with $10 of game play and $299,990 of music, posters and disappointment when you hear they're moving on?

[Bluerobin]

I guess my point is (as it's relevant to the topic at hand) just that it's a little unfair to point at a kickstarter where their goal was $80,000 with no goals above that, see that they're at $300,000, and demand they give you more because they exceeded their goal. It was your choice to pay however much you wanted for what they're promising. They're promising a release. If you don't think what you paid is worth it, get your money out, don't get mad at them for not following up on the promise you made up in your head.

[nenjin]

I guess my point is (as it's relevant to the topic at hand) just that it's a little unfair to point at a kickstarter where their goal was $80,000 with no goals above that, see that they're at $300,000, and demand they give you more because they exceeded their goal. It was your choice to pay however much you wanted for what they're promising. They're promising a release. If you don't think what you paid is worth it, get your money out, don't get mad at them for not following up on the promise you made up in your head.

Who said I'm mad about anything? 

Nearly every Kickstarter game that's done more than meet their goal has had to create stretch goals that expand the product. It's something anyone doing a Kickstarter should be thinking about. I'm hoping they've got real stretch goals, because what they've stated so far is basically hire professionals to give it professional polish.

And I guess in the end what I'm saying is, when you get handed this amazing opportunity, do something with it. Go somewhere with it beyond getting a game out. It's far too early to expect any sort of stretch goals (are they even stretch goals anymore when you've overshot this much and had no plans to do otherwise in place?) regarding the content....but I hope they're there.

Because I'm starting to wonder these days what paths games might have taken without the almost guaranteed, textbook definition of success delivered by fan attention (in Terraria's case) or with regards to Kickstarter. Like, is there a negative effect on a game when you've been wildly successful doing your first commercial product, before it's even come out?

[nenjin]

So any bets on where this bad boy will end up funding wise? It's already blown away my expectations at $350,000. Think they can pull half a mil in the next 24 days?

[lordcooper]

I'm gonna go for $550,000.

[burningpet]

So in their latest update they explain why they wont have stretch goals. i consider raising my pledge just for those reasons they gave alone.

They are making a game, they figured how much money they wanted to complete it, they got it. end of story. they don't have to make up stretch goal so people would give them even more money than they really need unless they want a chance to pre-order the game at a reduced price.

[nenjin]

I'll be interested to see what their final product is. While I respect their desire to not dev willy nilly to court more Kickstarter backers, they've still yet to really articulate more about the game than we knew a while ago. They keep talking about features.....yet they've never really talked about features. For a game in development for two years, I find that a little disconcerting.

[Squanto]

I'll be interested to see what their final product is. While I respect their desire to not dev willy nilly to court more Kickstarter backers, they've still yet to really articulate more about the game than we knew a while ago. They keep talking about features.....yet they've never really talked about features. For a game in development for two years, I find that a little disconcerting.

Have you looked on their blog?  They have a few more technical talks about stuff like implementing the AI, ballistics for archers and catapults, etc.  They halso have a few (low res so you can't read them) pictures of their dev lists for stuff to be implemented, being worked on, and implemented if you look for those.  There aren't any new feature-related updates because they've been busy with kickstarter, likely.  I would expect maybe next update or the one after that to get back to talking about content.

[Aklyon]

They've had an update every week for most of awhile now, on their blog.

[Knight of Fools]

Yeah, the reason for not doing stretch goals is a very solid one. More money just means that they're going to be able to implement more features that they already want to put in, rather than have some arbitrary goal of "at such-and-such level, we will have multiplayer! Donate so you can get it!"

The way they describe it almost makes me against the idea of a stretch goal in the first place.

[nenjin]

I still think they should be talking on the KS page about what all this extra money is going to make possible besides "a professional artist, a professional music guy and an accountant." If those features are locked in already, wouldn't sharing them on the KS page only help them? To me their response read like "Why should we offer you anything more than we planned?" Answer, you don't have to. But you should at least say something about what "the rest" is.

[lordcooper]

Profit?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Aklyon]

Profit?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Or reserve money. As much hype and potential awesome this has, its always good to have backups.

[Squanto]

Profit?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Or reserve money. As much hype and potential awesome this has, its always good to have backups.

Yep, especially remembering that we're on the B12 forums and DF always needs that extra bit of time to feature creep/clean up bugs.  It's not unreasonable to assume that Castle Story is going to be developed a bit longer than planned.  Every indie game I know has at least a bit of that going on.

[QuakeIV]

Kickstarter for this finally!

I think I speak for many when I say sign me the fuck up.