Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 582 583 [584] 585 586 ... 625

Author Topic: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)  (Read 968652 times)

Sean Mirrsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bearer of the Psionic Flame
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8745 on: May 26, 2015, 11:53:17 pm »

I think around page 90 (probably not) there was basically the exact same argument. Someone was arguing that the game was good, but not a good XCOM game. Then there were the countless "BUT IT'S NOT AS CONVOLUTED AS THE FIRST OOOONE" arguments scattered throughout the thread.

This is actually pretty funny. Just about all your points are found in the mentioned argument. And they were all argued against in many text walls.
Look, we get it. You don't like NewCom because it's not an HD remake of the original XCom. They both have aliens with superior technology invading. They both have you reverse engineering technology and fighting back. They both have you shooting down UFOs, they both have you die due to horrible unlucky RNG. They're both XCom games. Two titles don't have to be copy+pastes of each other to share the same IP.
There are many games with the same premise, y'know. The UFO:After-X series, Xenonauts, etc. Xenonauts was a far better X-Com game than newCom. A game does not have to have the same IP as the another game just because it shares the premise, either. But if you tout it as a remake, a sequel, then you won't do yourself any favors by stepping away from the original's key features.

Face it, newCom is an arcade game. It's a good game, a great game even, but I still prefer the old X-Com to it. NewCom is too... clear-cut. This is your class, hope you like it, it can't be changed. This is your loadout, you can change options but not change it. This is your cover, and as soon as you're shot from another direction you're flanked, other objects in the map be damned. This is your health, and as soon as you're down you're out, none of that "retreat and rescue" thing. These are the countries we protect, our detection coverage does not extend beyond their borders because who heard of radar, anyway? UFOs will not appear outside of it because we've never heard of airborne radar and patrols, either. This is your UFO, you are to send exactly one interceptor at it, and tough luck if the arbitrarily defined timer runs out. This is your Interceptor, it carries exactly one weapon because fuck multi-mission loadouts.

And so on and so forth, really. There's no emergence in it. Compared to tabletop games, with oldCom being chess, it would be three-dimensional eight-by-eight-by-eight Tic-Tac-Toe. Tactics, yes. Vast choice of moves, yes. Engaging complexity, not so much.

Which is why I keep OpenXCOM installed still, unlike Enemy Within.

preedit: and ninja'd, but my description is still kinda useful I think.
Logged
Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

puke

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8746 on: May 27, 2015, 01:21:46 am »

I think some of the streamlining was a concession to tablet interfaces.

If it wasn't for LW, I wouldn't have continued playing nucom, and even so there is a lot I miss.

the ability to drop, throw, and pickup items on the field.  throwing someone a medkit, for example.  Priming grenades, and setting explosive charges. 

I'm on the fence about inventory management, but I do really miss having a guy carying nothing but ammo for my launchers.

And I do wish we could still target terrain, or get additional hits with sutomatic fire agsinst densely packed enemies.
Logged

Sean Mirrsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bearer of the Psionic Flame
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8747 on: May 27, 2015, 01:56:58 am »

I think some of the streamlining was a concession to tablet interfaces.
I play OpenXCOM on my tablet, sans physical keyboard. Long-tap as right-click, drag-scroll everywhere, pinch zoom works, all buttons are large enough to push on a 10'' screen (mine is 11.6'' but I play in a smaller window). All you're missing is things requiring a keyboard, such as entering base names, soldier names, and savegame names, which are rare enough that pulling up the onscreen keyboard is no hassle. And the line-of-sight override option for firing, which still needs the Ctrl key for some reason, but that wasn't even part of any XCOM game I know of anyway. :P

I think I said before, but for all its age, the old X-Com interface is surprisingly tablet-friendly, and with OpenXCOM's additions it could just be released as a tablet game, once somebody makes an ingame onscreen keyboard.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 01:59:24 am by Sean Mirrsen »
Logged
Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Parsely

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • My games!
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8748 on: May 27, 2015, 01:57:41 am »

I think some of the streamlining was a concession to tablet interfaces.

If it wasn't for LW, I wouldn't have continued playing nucom, and even so there is a lot I miss.

the ability to drop, throw, and pickup items on the field.  throwing someone a medkit, for example.  Priming grenades, and setting explosive charges. 

I'm on the fence about inventory management, but I do really miss having a guy carying nothing but ammo for my launchers.

And I do wish we could still target terrain, or get additional hits with sutomatic fire agsinst densely packed enemies.
^^This.
Logged

a1s

  • Bay Watcher
  • Torchlight Venturer
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8749 on: May 27, 2015, 04:23:56 am »

Can we just agree on the common ground?
  • It's a good game
  • It's different from oldCom
  • For better or worse, the story is still engaging
  • And more or less, the game still has enough tactical complexity
Logged
I tried to play chess but two of my opponents were playing competitive checkers as a third person walked in with Game of Thrones in hand confused cause they thought this was the book club.

puke

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8750 on: May 27, 2015, 04:40:17 am »

oh for sure.  All of that is true.  Especially with LW.

I'm excited about this mystery Advent thing, too.  I trust the devs to produce something fun, and/or leave enough moding hooks open for people like the LW team to make something fun.
Logged

Digital Hellhound

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8751 on: May 27, 2015, 05:11:01 am »

After all this hype, if it turns out not to be XCOM, there'll be a riot. Damn vague teasers, at least give us clearer clues!
Logged
Russia is simply taking an anti-Fascist stance against European Nazi products, they should be applauded. ¡No parmesan!

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8752 on: May 27, 2015, 06:21:26 am »

There is virtually no possibility of it not being X-Com. Not only is it thematically dead-on, but the street screenshot is EU's art style and the font is X-Com Standard. And it came in a Firaxis newsletter.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

GiglameshDespair

  • Bay Watcher
  • Beware! Once I have posted, your thread is doomed!
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8753 on: May 27, 2015, 06:29:08 am »

It's a sequel to Xcom: The Bureau.
Firaxis pulls off the ultimate troll.
Logged
Old and cringe account. Disregard.

Tilla

  • Bay Watcher
  • Slam with the best or jam with the rest
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8754 on: May 27, 2015, 06:41:08 am »

Theres a lot of depth that I miss from the original games but there's also a shit tonne of waste in the design as well. More complexity isn't always in service to a games design. In fact it rarely is, good game design is usually about trimming the fat down to what makes sense for the project scope, ambitions, budget, etc.

And yah this thing being teased is 1000% XCOM, the logo even looks like the Alien faction logo from Apocalypse.
Logged

forsaken1111

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • TTB Twitch
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8755 on: May 27, 2015, 06:47:28 am »

Ignoring the current endlessly recycled discussion... I've reinstalled Enemy Unknown and want to try out the long war mod. Can anyone recommend any other good baseline mods to enhance gameplay?
Logged

puke

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8756 on: May 27, 2015, 07:06:48 am »

I'd say just run with LW for now.  Most other mods are not actually  compatible with it, and it really does a good job of standing on its own.

There are some LW mod mods that are worth fiddling with.  For example, editing the configuration file to adjust things that you might want to customize for your game.  Here are some of the changes that I make:

- eliminate extra recovery time for psy and gene mod troops
- change funding levels by country to reflect actual GDPs.  Totally hoses game balance, but I think it makes it more fun.  You're more motivated to help G7 and BRIC countries, and less motivated to help others.
- tweak repair times for aircraft (because, come on)
- make enemies drop more meld (because I'm impatient)
- make arc throwers equipable as either a pistol or as a item

There is a bunch more you can customize.  You can tune up or tune down the difficulty in lots of ways.
Logged

forsaken1111

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • TTB Twitch
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8757 on: May 27, 2015, 07:49:25 am »

I'd say just run with LW for now.  Most other mods are not actually  compatible with it, and it really does a good job of standing on its own.

There are some LW mod mods that are worth fiddling with.  For example, editing the configuration file to adjust things that you might want to customize for your game.  Here are some of the changes that I make:

- eliminate extra recovery time for psy and gene mod troops
- change funding levels by country to reflect actual GDPs.  Totally hoses game balance, but I think it makes it more fun.  You're more motivated to help G7 and BRIC countries, and less motivated to help others.
- tweak repair times for aircraft (because, come on)
- make enemies drop more meld (because I'm impatient)
- make arc throwers equipable as either a pistol or as a item

There is a bunch more you can customize.  You can tune up or tune down the difficulty in lots of ways.
Hm, I like some of your ideas. I'll probably use the arc thrower idea. I still think it's stupid that it has a limited number of shots... we can power a laser cannon and give it a replacable battery pack, but a reusable taser is beyond us? Any easy way to change that? If so, I'll probably be changing it to at least double or more the charges.

Changing funding levels sounds amusing as well. I might be too tempted to let some regions burn...
Logged

puke

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8758 on: May 27, 2015, 08:23:02 am »

Any easy way to change that? If so, I'll probably be changing it to at least double or more the charges.

This is the tweak I used, based on a older version of LW but probably still valid:

Code: [Select]
Weapons=( strName="", iType=eItem_ArcThrower,               ABILITIES[0]=eAbility_ShotStun,       ABILITIES[1]=0,                            ABILITIES[2]=0,                     ABILITIES[3]=0,                  ABILITIES[4]=0,             ABILITIES[5]=0,             Properties[0]=eWP_AnyClass,   Properties[1]=eWP_NoReload,      Properties[2]=eWP_CantReact,     Properties[3]=eWP_Secondary, Properties[4]=eWP_Backpack,    Properties[5]=eWP_Pistol,        iDamage=0, iEnvironmentDamage=0, iRange=27, iReactionRange=30, iReactionAngle=200, iRadius=0, iCritical=0, iOffenseBonus=0, iSuppression=0, iSize=eItemSize_Small, iHPBonus=0, iWillBonus=0 )

iSuppression should do the ammo, in the format xxyy, where xx is shots WITH ammo conservation; yy is shots WITHOUT ammo conservation.  I suspect there may be some inherent problems with the Arc Thrower though, since it is based on an item and not a weapon, and items are more like grenades.  I haven't tried it, you may have to remove its ability to exist as an item and make it only a pistol rather than either/or.

Changing funding levels sounds amusing as well. I might be too tempted to let some regions burn...

I'll just leave this here then:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, this is a good resource:  http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Mods_(Long_War)
Logged

MarcAFK

  • Bay Watcher
  • [INSANITY INTENSIFIES]
    • View Profile
Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8759 on: May 27, 2015, 08:37:30 am »

Yes, screw Belgium!
Logged
They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.
Pages: 1 ... 582 583 [584] 585 586 ... 625