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[Zangi]

XCom Apocalypse, if they only finished it... it could have been so much more.  Still awesome in it's own right.
I personally loved the ability to absolutely level whole sections of the in-battle map... and the real-time mode.  Dual wield auto cannons with explosive ammo.

[EnigmaticHat]

ETA: Nope. Fuck this game. Fuck these chryssalids that can, in the exact moment that they are revealed, move towards my sniper, leap up to her perch, and move adjacent to her for free. Fuck this game that decides that two point-blank overwatch shots (one scatter laser, one assault rifle) should miss when I attempt to save my sniper. Fuck this game that deals enough damage for my sniper to survive two chryssalid attacks with a single HP then kills her with poison. God fucking dammit.

Overwatch is less accurate than normal shooting and tends to trigger at ranges that wouldn't normally by 100% anyway.  For all practical purposes overwatch is NEVER 100%.  If its between succeeding at an overwatch or losing someone, run away.  If someone can't move to run away, well that was a mistake.  You should have advanced (hopefully with run and gun) and murdered that bug instead of letting it come to you.

Which brings me to my second point... Damage Roulette is bullshit.  The only reason cryssalids are even remotely fair is because their low health allows you to get guaranteed kills on them.  What you did there, shooting cryssalids at point blank with the whole squad, is the standard way of dealing with them and it almost always works.  Damage Roulette takes that away and turns it into a dice-off.  Seriously, no one has ever had a more fun game because of Damage Roulette.

[puke]

XCom Apocalypse, if they only finished it...

What wasnt finished about it?  I remember having a really good time, and enjoying the story until the end.  I thought the reveal on the mastermind aliens was particularly good -- but I won't talk about that since someone is playing it.

The stuff about robots and gangs and raids I had totally forgotten.  Man that was a good game.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Basically, while Apocalypse was definitely playable and enjoyable, it wasn't as complete as it was originally envisioned. The different fractions were supposed to be much more involved and interactive than they are in the game for one example. Right now they just kinda exist and don't do much unless something happens to them, but originally they were going to be more proactive about things, though unfortunately I can't remember all of the details off the top of my head. It shouldn't take too much digging to figure out what the developers imagined the game would be like, before they had to cut corners and make compromises.

Having ground vehicles be somewhat useful and not unintentionally fragile would have been nice too.

[Cthulhu]

Have ground vehicles ever been worth skyranger slots in xcom though?  Aside from the MEC troopers which were sick as hell.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Well... In Apocalypse ground vehicles were extra sucky, because if the road they were on was destroyed, they automatically got destroyed as well. So no matter how good they could be, or how tough they were, they could always be instantly destroyed by a stray shot by a UFO. Or your own ships. So the only role you'd use them in was long-range harassers, since otherwise they wouldn't last too long.

[Delta Foxtrot]

Well I don't know if they're worth it, but I do like to pack one or in rare cases two SHIVs if I have the extra troop slots. It's nice to have something expendable (even if a rookie costs less than a SHIV).

I've heard of a roadmod that allowed vehicles to survive outside roads in apoc, though I haven't played the game myself to verify.

[Rolan7]

There's a misunderstanding here.  In Apocalypse the ground vehicles are just cars and APCs which can bring your soldiers to the battles.  unless I'm wrong and they actually show up in the battlescape...  I doubt it, but I've only been using the *flying* cars and interceptor.

One cute thing about Apocalypse is that all the vehicles are 50's styled (due to city ordinance lol), despite taking place in the future.  So it's like what the 50's thought the future would be.  So the interceptor is shaped like a rocketship despite hovering around and landing horizontally.

I've been avoiding the ground vehicles mainly because they're slower, and also because I've heard that even the armored APC explodes instantly if the road is shot out beneath it.  There was something in the Ufopedia about the roads emitting an antigravity field, so maybe even the land vehicles are really hover vehicles of a sort.

[Flying Dice]

They were well-worth it in OldCom. There's nothing quite like rolling a rocket tank down the ramp first to say "fuck you" to aliums.
--

Never do damage roulette... or the other one that gives you progressive flank bonuses. Once I stopped using those my games started having much better chances.
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Which brings me to my second point... Damage Roulette is bullshit.  The only reason cryssalids are even remotely fair is because their low health allows you to get guaranteed kills on them.  What you did there, shooting cryssalids at point blank with the whole squad, is the standard way of dealing with them and it almost always works.  Damage Roulette takes that away and turns it into a dice-off.  Seriously, no one has ever had a more fun game because of Damage Roulette.

Overwatch is one of the prime reasons why I switched to Long War. Your Infantry get two rounds of full-accuracy overwatch fire which can trigger on just about anything aliens do. It's fucking glorious, and you will almost never hunker anyone, much less resort to the mass-hunker that Vanilla turns into.

Re: Damage Roulette: I disagree. I play with Damage Roulette, Not Created Equally, and Hidden Potential all on, because it helps replicate the feeling from the original games that, regardless of what you do, there will always be ways for the game to fuck you. Not necessarily in the same way, but in the same general sense (no wonky Blaster Launcher mechanics accidentally'ing half a dozen Colonels, for example, but the game is still screwing up your perfect planning in unexpected ways). Also, because it's more interesting in terms of spontaneously emerging stories than knowing ahead of time how every variable will fall.

Though even I would agree that Training Roulette can go fuck itself with a chainsaw.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I enjoy Training Roulette. It provides for unusual builds.

[puke]

Re: Damage Roulette: I disagree. I play with Damage Roulette, Not Created Equally, and Hidden Potential all on, because it helps replicate the feeling from the original games that, regardless of what you do, there will always be ways for the game to fuck you.

These seem to balance out for me.  I like the chance to do a little extra damage, or none.  The idea that someone might level up really well, or less than expected.  It all seems to average out, but it does mean that you might find heroes (or disappointments) in unexpected places.

I dont like the roulette, though.  I have a hard enough time keeping track of who has which ability, so I try to make most of my guys follow standard templates or have common abilities.  If they were all random, I'd have to be hitting F1 every time I selected a guy to remember what he had.

[EnigmaticHat]

I thought everyone liked training roulette... its like the best SW option ever.

[Sirus]

I'm now playing with Not Created Equally, Hidden Potential, Training Roulette and Absolutely Critical. Damage Roulette is gone for now. Absolutely Critical might hurt sometimes, but there's nothing like successfully flanking an enemy and then blowing it's face off.

[SOLDIER First]

_its

[Flying Dice]

I thought everyone liked training roulette... its like the best SW option ever.

Oh, it's hilarious, but the things I've seen...