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Author Topic: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)  (Read 972090 times)

EnigmaticHat

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7230 on: January 16, 2014, 01:05:09 pm »

I like the cutscenes.  It makes me feel like I'm playing an FPS and just happen to be able to tell every player on the team to do exactly what I want them to do.

Panicking is when they break their bonds and go back to being teamkilling trolls.
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7231 on: January 16, 2014, 01:17:54 pm »

It makes me feel as if I'm directing and watching (at the same time) some kind of action flick.
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7232 on: January 16, 2014, 06:00:13 pm »

It's really stilted for me when my soldier's bullets fly sideways out of his gun into a wall three feet from the alien he just capped, all in SOooOPER KOOOOL SLOWWWWW MMOTTIOOOOOOOOONNNnn
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7233 on: January 16, 2014, 06:53:02 pm »

My only problem with it is how it "chooses" the camera perspective.
Whenever the soldier will kill the alien, it chooses from a certain set of perspectives as well as the standard one. Which means if you get a panning over-the-shoulder shot (I believe that's one of them), you immediately know that you're going to get a kill.
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7234 on: January 16, 2014, 06:55:43 pm »

In EU, I had always felt relief upon seeing those cutscenes when shooting an alien, because they only played when an alien died. In EW, they play randomly (I think they only potentially play if you get a hit?), so no more joy of learning you killed something prematurely.

They never bothered me though, they're integrated so smoothly in my mind that I barely care. The only one that bothers me is the one you get when the last move you do for the turn is a dash. For some reason, I never expect it.
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7235 on: January 17, 2014, 08:34:10 pm »

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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7236 on: January 18, 2014, 12:54:22 pm »

This is for GWG from a semi-experienced X-COM player.
Whoo!

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Some critiques, in case anyone here is working on the next XCOM game.
-The difficulty curve was...off. Sectoids? Thin Men? Outsiders? Canno fodder. Floaters? Sometimes took a couple shots, but usually not. Mutons? Tough, but doable. Crysallids? Berserkers? Swarms of mutons? Tardisks? All those other big-name aliens? Those were a lot tougher. (Especially the effing crysallids.) Similarly, early UFOs can be shot down easily with unupgraded Interceptors...then with damage...then not at all, eve with little upgrades. The first months lured me into a false sense of security, which lead to me developing habits that lead to the death of my best soldiers when I started encountering tougher aliens.
As mentioned before, you seemed like you were getting a bit behind in terms of tech. One of the big parts of the game is to compete with the aliens in the Arms/Tech Race. That means when Chryssalids, Cyberdiscs and Muton squadrons start appearing, its time to get Lasers and Carapace/Ghost Armor.
Quite probable. I blame that on my lack of alloys and elerium.
And once I fell behind, I couldn't ever catch up. That's a bit of a problem in single-player games; when you screw up, you generally want either a way to climb back into victory, or a swift loss. Once I fell behind on tech and was nearly out of alloys and elerium, there wasn't much I could do to stop my top soldiers from being killed.
The solution has more to do with resource management than difficulty curve, although some more intermediate alien species would be nice. Towards the end of the game, I was almost entirely going either "Oh good, it's just X" or "OH CRAP IT'S A Y!" There wasn't much middle ground, and I don't think that had anything to do with resource management.

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-I noticed that, once you hti a certain point, you start needing alloys and elerium a hell of a lot. I suspect that my inability to make or research advanced weapons past a certain point contributed to my decline--my inability to take any more ships (until that last one), get more raw materials, and make new weapons. I can't help but wonder...what were the mutons' armor, or the floaters, or whatever made out of and powered by? Consider having a chance for the more heavily-cyborged or -armored enemies to drop some alien alloys, or maybe even elerium.
You can always accumulate some good alien materials if you don't use explosives to blow up all their spaceship equipment. Then it comes down to making the decision of what you're going to use your limited alloys and elerium for. Weapons? Armor? Spacecraft? Rooms?
Yeah.
And while I'm here...what are alien weapons, armor, and so forth made out of? Why can't we melt those down for alien alloys, if the alloys from spacecraft hulls can be used for anything from armor to lasers?

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-SHIVs were underwhelming. I mean, sure, they were a bit tougher and maybe had a better attack than rookies, but they can't advance, can't use advanced arms and armor, and can't take cover. Not really worth the credits. Plus, the feel was...off. It felt like they should be expendable combatants. To fix this, I would advise making them weaker and make it so they could be rebuilt if destroyed (probably at a cost).
I don't really use SHIVs, so I can't comment on this too much, but a lot of players that do enjoy using them say that Foundry upgrades to the SHIVs are essential.
I've heard a lot about how high-level SHIVs are really dangerous, especially with Enemy Within. Still...it seems kind of off to have the robots be your elite soldiers and not your mooks. Taste, I guess.

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-Early on in the game, scientists and especially engineers were in high demand and low supply. Once you get 30-40, though, the demand kinda...dropped off. I'm not sure exactly how to fix this, but it was odd. It fits back in with the "Difficulty Curve" thing as poor gameplay pacing, I guess.
Do you want this game to get any harder? :P Once you get enough of them, it helps because then you can focus on getting rewards like more money or more insta-veterans.
Point.

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-Make the Arc Thrower a secondary weapon. Isn't that basically what it is? Besides, if it wasn't pushing out things like nanofiber vests, SCOPEs, and medikits, I might have it more often. And on more than one soldier.
As mentioned before, Nanofiber vests begin to exponentially decline in value the more time passes. If it really worries you that much, you can pine for the upgrade in the armory which allows all soldiers to carry two different items into battle.
I suppose the big thing is that the arc thrower is basically a pistol, from what I can see.
That, and the backpack slot is a little bit silly. Why can you carry a thin nanofiber vest, a grenade, or a scope, but not all three?

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I'd much rather keep it as an item, firstly because unlike standard weapons, it has a limited number of uses, does no damage and has a very small range, marking it more as an auxiliary tool. Also, Assaults, who are most likely to be the ones holding Arc Throwers early on, get a lot of use out of their current secondary weapon, a pistol. If the pistol spot was replaced by the Arc Throwers, any soldier with a shotgun would suddenly lose just any ranged capabilities beyond close combat.

Hm. Hadn't thought of that.

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-Make the story less...linear and more developed. For instance, Thin Men were supposed to have been used as infiltrators (presumably once they fixed the "weird eyes" and "explodes into toxic gas with heavy impact" issues), but this never really gets developed. Heck, just having the Director guy turning out to be a thin man would be nice. It's a thread that gets started...then dropped. There were also hints that mutons (and other aliens?) were to some extent conquered peoples working as soldiers, with the tribal markings and whatnot, but again this was mentioned and dropped. And what do the aliens do with their human abductees? Heck, these last two could be combined--some kind of cybernetic human unit would be potentially scary. Not to mention...crysalids and zombies. Geez, just a zombie apocalypse of sorts would be worth expanding on. "Ignore/Fail a Terror Mission and that area has an infestation of the undead which will cause missions and increase panic, possibly spreading." That threat would have gotten me to risk my folks more, rather than just running once the crysallid resistance got too heavy. Two more points related to these...
X-COM has never been much about the story, focusing more on the gameplay dynamics and the narrative mainly serves as a means of progressing the plot. The real story comes from any Roleplaying you get out of customizing your soldiers, giving them backgrounds and certain traits, becoming attached to them, remembering each of their adventures and mourning their loss.
And the story, like the true motives for the aliens and the reason for their diversity becomes clear later on in the game.
Noted.
And I know (I've read the TV Tropes page), but still...it sounds like it's pretty linear.

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Also, there is a Zombie Apocalypse mission in the DLC.
Indeed. Still, it seems like it's focusing a lot more on the minor than on some kind of overarching theme.

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-Seriously, how do you spell cryssalid? Couldn't you have given these guys a simpler name, like "Skitterer" or "Crawler"? And mutons...why not name them "Hulks"? And what's with "Sectoids"? I'm guessing this has something to do with the original, but seriously. every other alien, from thin men to berserkers had a name that was a real word. Pick a consistent nomenclature and run with it. And the soldiers supposedly came up with the names...what's with that? "Why did they name them" is a bit odd understandable, but the "Why did they name them that is peculiar.
Chyrssalids utilize their host's body like a Chrysalis. It's probably the most fitting name really. And Sectoids have some old-school name, I'm sure it's clear in the original games.
I don't know about the chrysalis thing. They remind me more of those wasps that lay their eggs in paralyzed caterpillars, or those wasps that lay their eggs in paralyzed tarantulas, or those wasps that--why is it always wasps? They're kinda jerks, I guess.
Ahem.
And yeah, I know that there's tradition and such. I guess most of the naming advice would be best given to the developers of the original X-COM.

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The rescued civilians in a Terror mission do get rescued, but it's little relief to a country when you abandon the mission and leave a plague of aliens running around. "Yeah, you'll find a few Mutons and Cyberdisks running around downtown still, murdering dozens and destroying homes. But hey, we got 5 people out of there! Why are you guys still panicking?" As Jake Solomon, designer of the game, once said, "THAT'S X-COM BABY!"
I was listed as having saved 0 civilians.

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You can't take stuff off of dead teammates from a gameplay aspect because that would make things too easy.  "THAT'S X-COM BABY!"
Fair.

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The single Skyranger is a prototype developed by all the Council countries in a group project, which cost a ton of time, resources and research. How many other aircraft do you know that can circumnavigate the globe in roughly three hours, while holding a crew, 6 soldiers, and possibly civilians?
How many aircraft do you know that are composed entirely of alien alloys, with elerium reactors and plasma cannons?

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The local military sends soldiers and vehicles out all the time. They're just not good at it. Did you not notice all the missions with burned out husks of tanks and fighter helicopters lying everywhere?
I did not.
This brings up another question, though. If alien weapons destroy tanks in a couple shots, why don't they pulverize anyone wearing less than Titan armor? If we at least got a blurb about how there were multiple settings on captured weaponry or something that would be great, but there isn't any explanation beyond "Alright, you want all alien shots to be OHKO's? That's what I thought."

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Also, the Council countries ask X-COM for weapons and tech all the time. In one of my games, I sent Canada a few thin man corpses and not only did they give me some cash, they also managed to find cures to several types of cancer.
It seems like this should have a lasting impact, though.
Yeah, curing cancer is nice, but what does that mean, worldwide? Are the Canadians glad you managed to give them such a panacea? Will...okay, this is a tougher example, but if you provide weapon and armor samples to various countries for them to reverse-engineer, surely there should be some effect from this? You're (ideally) beating up the aliens with these, why can't the locals? Also, this might convince me to actually complete some missions.

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What do you mean support? You are the Support. "THAT'S X-COM BABY!" Unless you mean the class Support itself. Well, combat doctors are hard to come by. Also, "THAT'S X-COM BABY!"
I'm referring more to how little funding and whatnot X-Com gets without launching satellites or something, and how easy it can be to lose a nation.

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Soldiers bust down doors and jump through windows for efficiency. In any firefight, everything that gives you an extra second or allows you to get a single extra bullet off often determines who lives and who dies.
An argument that breaks down when you're just scouting the area.

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Also, the Open Door command is straightforward. Stand next to door. Press door button. Door opens.
Isn't that the left mouse button? That didn't seem to work after the tutorial.

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Why do you expect all this Support? You are the best military organization in the world. You're doing the supporting.
I'm just wishing there was some kind of in-game explanation for this stuff.

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-On the Interceptors...the Firebirds were neat, but expensive. (I never even used mine.) So were other things, like Archangel armor and advanced SHIVs. Heck, pretty much anything having to do with Interceptors counts, as they almost never get used and almost always cost a lot.
Interceptors get used all the time though.
Interceptors get used every few months, but you need four Firestorms to get a decent chance of using them.

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Also, money isn't an issue if you make sure that countries don't leave you, and you set up satellites.
The cost was less the money and more the...everything else, really.

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-The "cutscenes" in the middle of battle were an awesome feature! ...for the first few missions, then they got dull. There are two solutions I propose: Reduce the number and increase the variety (if possible). To the first...cutscenes most every time someone dashed, killed or saw an alien (or would have if they hit), took a reaction shot, got killed, grappled, or whatever gets dull fast. Limit it to important events--killing major enemies (that first sectoid, early thin men, mutons before we get laser weapons to deal with them, crysalids if you ever get weapons that blow the buggers away in a single shot, always berserkers, tardisks, and other "miniboss" monsters...), successful reaction shots, killing notable soldiers (ie, not the one rookie surrounded by veterans), jumping through windows, spotting a new or dangerous type of alien, etc. The second would be tougher and perhaps not feasible, but having more than one animation/"scene" arrangement per cutscene-triggering event would help.
There's nothing wrong with having an opinion like this, but it seems like a majority of people like the little cutscenes. Not only are they cool, but they allow you breathe a sigh of relief as you know something is going to go right, usually with a dead alien. It's okay to not enjoy them, but don't expect anything to change when you're proposing limiting a feature that over 80% of the fanbase enjoys. The most you can hope for is a mod that limits the amount of cutscenes, if it exists at all.
I'm not sure what the logic of that 80% is, but they got really...repetitive. Which is basically what I'm complaining about.
And yeah, I'm aware that none of these concerns are ones likely to be addressed.

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When you hover over their wreck it says "Cyberdisc Destroyed." There's a research option for them called "Cyberdisc Autopsy", during which they are refereed to as such by Dr. Valen.
That requires me to wreck or autopsy one.

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"SHIVs cost a heck of a lot more than rookie soldiers."
And they're also better than a rookie soldier. You get what you pay for.
Assuming you aren't putting much faith in your advanced equipment, the ability to take cover, or the ability to level up. And my SHIVs never seemed to last more than a mission for some reason.

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"Well, yes, but some in-game explanation would help."

"X-COM BABY!"
A memetic quote from a Let's Play does not count as in-game.
Although it is, technically, an explanation.

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On a side note, you do sometimes get request from nations for materials.
"I know, but I've never seen evidence that that affects anything past giving you some more money."
Engineers and scientists are often also gifts. And money is the best support you can get until late game.
I feel like your actions in the world should leave a lasting effect on the world. If you give Egypt advanced weapons and armor, they aren't so easily frightened by aliens and/or they have a chance to "complete" abductions or something in their territory (preventing terror from rising). Giving corpses that leads to medical advances should...I dunno, I just like it better if your choices have lasting effects past "Ooh, money!" or "More engineers?"
Also, it might encourage me to actually complete some. "No, 36 Alloys are not worth $241. Go away."

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Anyway, the reason normal fighter jets can't take down UFO's is because the Raven's are, at this point, Earth's most advanced fighter craft.
"And one of them can take down UFOs on its own. The US has a lot more than one jet fighter, and the UFOs aren't seen to have multiple weapons."
U.S. Fighter Jets are pretty inferior to UFOs, with them being exploded via Plasma weapons all the time.
Makes you wonder what they did to the Ravens.
And why no one ever asks for Interceptor-related equipment.

It makes me feel as if I'm directing and watching (at the same time) some kind of action flick.
It felt that way for me, at first.
As time went on, it began to feel like someone was trying to reduce production costs by splicing a bunch of stock footage together over a green screen or something.
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Iceblaster

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7237 on: January 18, 2014, 12:59:09 pm »

Crosspost from the dying thread!

So a squad of five head to a crashed medium UFO. Expecting sectoids and thin men I send two recruits along to become squadies.

There were a few sectoids and then once u reached the power sources THREE mutons jump out a peg my first recruit, Gretta Karlson, she dies and then I realize 'shiiiiit' so I begin falling back to the entrance, my support 'Kazuko Smokes Ogawa drops a smoke to cover us. I have my heavy and assault 'Emilo The Tank Castillo' and 'Kojo Bishop Baloya' respectively give cover fire so my second recruit Grannis Lekas could GTFO.

Bishop gets pegged in next turn as well as Grannis, leaving me with The Tank and Smokes. They run back to the evac zone when I realize. Maaaaybe I can win this, so I have them take cover, and by next turn they were fully loaded and on over watch.

Three floaters awaken and charge us, The Tank gets off his shot, bringing one down. Smokes pegs another with her Laser Rifle and it falls. Cue one more turn of over watch and we get the last down.

Instead of doing the tactically sound choice of retreating, I send them back to the UFO over many turns and begin firing at a muton that was separated. It threw a grenade at us and Smokes panicked, taking The Tank down and soon got shot herself.

Personally, I consider it a win considering how badass it was.

XCOM EU(2012)

Opinions? Anything I could've done other than retreat that could've saved the situation?

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7238 on: January 18, 2014, 01:13:02 pm »

Crosspost from the dying thread!

<snip>

Opinions? Anything I could've done other than retreat that could've saved the situation?
Well, remember that Mutons carry grenades, for one. Keep your soldiers apart, stay in high cover. Stay passive in general if you're outnumbered, and keep on lookout for enemies. If you're desperate to win, don't be afraid to split up. Use one soldier, in high cover, as bait to make the enemies take cover or try to approach him, then use the other soldiers to flank the alien group from a different direction - the UFO normally has three or four entrances.
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7239 on: January 18, 2014, 01:17:03 pm »

When you complete an abduction mission and you're rewarded with a soldier, or money, or engineers/scientists.. Where do they come from? Do you rescue them from the area? Or does the specific country give them to you as a gift?

...

We can "hire" soldiers from a bottomless pool of the toughest soldiers in the world.. But not scientists or engineers!!? What the fuck?

EDIT: Also, I understand why paying for upkeep of personnel makes sense, you can't just not pay these dudes just because the world's going to end.. But again, the world as we know it is, for all practical purposes, "ending." You'd think you'd get a few volunteers every once in a while. But nope. Every talented person in the world is a freaking mercenary. >.>
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 01:21:44 pm by GUNINANRUNIN »
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7240 on: January 18, 2014, 01:21:44 pm »

When you complete an abduction mission and you're rewarded with a soldier, or money, or engineers/scientists.. Where do they come from? Do you rescue them from the area? Or does the specific country give them to you as a gift?

...

We can "hire" soldiers from a bottomless pool of the toughest soldiers in the world.. But not scientists or engineers!!? What the fuck?

EDIT: Also, I understand why paying for upkeep of personnel makes sense, you can't just not pay these dudes just because the world's going to end.. But again, the world as we know it is for all practical purposes, "ending." You'd think you'd get a few volunteers every once in a while. >.>
Yeah, in many respects the new XCOM makes even less sense than the old X-COM. The few respects in which it does make more sense stand out all the more in that light. :P
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7241 on: January 18, 2014, 01:24:19 pm »

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The local military sends soldiers and vehicles out all the time. They're just not good at it. Did you not notice all the missions with burned out husks of tanks and fighter helicopters lying everywhere?
I did not.
This brings up another question, though. If alien weapons destroy tanks in a couple shots, why don't they pulverize anyone wearing less than Titan armor? If we at least got a blurb about how there were multiple settings on captured weaponry or something that would be great, but there isn't any explanation beyond "Alright, you want all alien shots to be OHKO's? That's what I thought."

It was like that in the original. I guess the developers of this one just didn't want to put their players through the frustration of seeing their colonels equipped in the best armor in the game get one shot by a sectoid.

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Also, the Open Door command is straightforward. Stand next to door. Press door button. Door opens.
Isn't that the left mouse button? That didn't seem to work after the tutorial.

It should be working. Can be a bit finicky at time but I use it all the time.





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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7242 on: January 18, 2014, 01:28:06 pm »

I assume your reward does come from the country you help and that any soldiers you get as a reward come from the Navy SEALS or some equivalent with tons of combat experience and most soldiers you recruit are probably fresh out of boot camp and deployed to a "special base" with no real idea what they're getting into.

Why you can't hire engineers or scientists i can't explain.
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7243 on: January 18, 2014, 01:31:02 pm »

Maybe because X-com will take any hobo that shows up at their front door and make them into a solider, while they actually have standards for scientists and engineers?  :P
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #7244 on: January 18, 2014, 01:34:02 pm »

I resent the accusation that they make them soldiers. X-com prefers the term "Meat Shields".
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