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Author Topic: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)  (Read 961815 times)

Neonivek

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1680 on: September 12, 2012, 02:25:25 am »

Quote
Clearly not military fit? Because they're not rippling with muscle?

No because the women in this game... Like soo many others... are built like super models.

Also yes I am AWARE that the men are overly muscled and that their armor makes them look suspiciously like they are from a different game... I already did a parody of that a while ago.

Which is whatever... I got long ago that they dropped all pretense of this game trying to even have a hint of reality as soon as I saw the space armor (Which I still stand by the original had, but whatever... Won't argue it). So yeah... It wouldn't be a problem if I took this game as a mindless strategy game but I am unfortunately taking the stance that this isn't. Which apperantly is biting me in the butt because it is going out of its way to say "Hey stupid! This IS a mindless silly strategy game and you are taking it too seriously. Think of it like a hollywood movie about Rambo, Rambo, Rambo, And Angolena Jolee taking on Aliens and what they would do" and then I go "But... there is like... elements of the first and everything"... and they go "Yes but those arn't what will sell the game. What will sell the game are these pictures of aliens, Rambo, and boobs"... and I go "So what you are saying is that you are pandering to the stupid people?" and they go "No... I am saying that you seem to have a irrational need to see greater qualities in games"

and then I go "Well is there a problem with wanting the best from a game?" and they go "Well what makes you think what you think is the best? Ever thought your interpretation is wrong?" and then I go "Is there something wrong with wanting games that pander to my needs that is sort of what videogames are?" and they go "Yes but does that mean our game is flawed?" and then I go "If we thought by those terms then nothing is truely flawed or even done well. We have to have some basis of communication of quality" and they go "But our aliens are cooler" and then I go "Well actually they sort of arn't. The issue is that you have turned the aliens from hinting at a larger culture into monsters with very little sense of that anymore" and they go "But they totally have a culture still, we written it into the game" and I go "But why arn't their strategies showing that? Why even have a alien race of cannon fodder unless they are cannon fodder" and they go "because if we did that then we would have had a cool alien monster" and then I go "But I prefered it before" and they go "Well weren't they silly before?" and I go "But that is the point, the point was how subtle they were and how they could go past your radar and fool you" and they go "But were they cool looking scary aliens that could crawl up walls?" and I go "But why do they need any of that crud" and they go "Well why does any alien need any details" and I go "But couldn't you have incorperated the old alien while making a completely new alien to do your stupid silly alien crawl through walls thingy that looks more like you cloned Gollem?" and they went "No because that would have taken effort... that and the design of the old alien clashes with our could scary alien monsters motif. A cutsy alien would look silly in a game like this" and I went "I know, but couldn't you have kept them out of it then?" and they went "No, because we need to cash in on nerds!" blaw blaw blaw blaw

I am still going to hold onto that they are going to include a medical gun of some sort. Even if it isn't one that shoots. It would just be so perfect for this game.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 02:40:28 am by Neonivek »
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Heron TSG

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1681 on: September 12, 2012, 02:49:13 am »

Classic flat-top hair aside, I don't think there are any characters that don't look as if they could be models.
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Shadowlord

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1682 on: September 12, 2012, 02:50:30 am »

Not sure why Neonivek argued with himself for about 10 minutes there. Bit odd, that.
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Sirus

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1683 on: September 12, 2012, 02:51:11 am »

Not sure why Neonivek argued with himself for about 10 minutes there. Bit odd, that.
He does that all the time.
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Heron TSG

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1684 on: September 12, 2012, 02:56:41 am »

Oh goodness, it grew from when I first read it.
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forsaken1111

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1685 on: September 12, 2012, 03:36:32 am »

Incidentally, making decisions when designing a game so that it will be financially successful is not 'pandering to the stupid'. It is good business sense. If I made a game with a bunch of skinny guys and fat guys in uniform, you'd be all like "Hey why is this guy all fat? He's not a soldier! I don't want to play some fat guy or this 90 pound weakling which can't fire a laser gun without falling over from the recoil."

In short, people want Captain America in their game, not so much Bucky. Sure they could stand on 'higher principle' and make 'realistic looking' people. The game wouldn't sell well and they'd probably not make another one, or eat that week because they're still paying back the publisher. Video Game making is as much business as it is art. They are designing a product which must appeal to a diverse audience to be successful, else it will never come to market at all.
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Anvilfolk

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1686 on: September 12, 2012, 04:02:03 am »

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it's that much about sales figures. I think it's just modern aesthetics. I mean, we are used to seeing good-looking people in game, and developers are used to making good-looking people in game. It's sort of a status quo that, to be honest, doesn't matter that much. It's not that big a deal. The game'll be played from a zoomed out enough perspective that it won't matter.

And by the way, I'm being the devil's advocate here. I get ultra pissed off by all anime and game women being super thin with huge boobs.

That being said, I'd love to see more variety. I think it would add to the attachment we get to the characters.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 04:52:17 pm by Anvilfolk »
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Virtz

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1687 on: September 12, 2012, 05:14:38 am »

Incidentally, making decisions when designing a game so that it will be financially successful is not 'pandering to the stupid'. It is good business sense. If I made a game with a bunch of skinny guys and fat guys in uniform, you'd be all like "Hey why is this guy all fat? He's not a soldier! I don't want to play some fat guy or this 90 pound weakling which can't fire a laser gun without falling over from the recoil."

In short, people want Captain America in their game, not so much Bucky. Sure they could stand on 'higher principle' and make 'realistic looking' people. The game wouldn't sell well and they'd probably not make another one, or eat that week because they're still paying back the publisher. Video Game making is as much business as it is art. They are designing a product which must appeal to a diverse audience to be successful, else it will never come to market at all.
Ok. Stop. You're not defending Captain America proportions (if the Avengers movie is what we go by), you're defending Gears of War/Ogryn proportions. It's not so much about them having to be skinny and fat as well, it's just about them NOT all looking like they just came from a Strongman competition on steroids. And I can hardly imagine the Ogryn look being essential to selling well. If anything it can only be detrimental, cause the characters are more caricatural. And that doesn't go over well in games that try to be serious (which I'm sort of hoping this still does). People have an idea of what a real soldier looks like and it's usually not this.

The women are sort of normal looking, but because of how all males are built like brick houses, they look a bit off carrying equipment that looks like it was meant for Spehss Mehreens. They're now the "90 pound weakling which can't fire a laser gun without falling over from the recoil" you were talking about.
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dogstile

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1688 on: September 12, 2012, 05:25:44 am »

Those are men built like space marines? They're tiny compared to my space marine army.
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timferius

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1689 on: September 12, 2012, 06:58:27 am »

Incidentally, making decisions when designing a game so that it will be financially successful is not 'pandering to the stupid'. It is good business sense. If I made a game with a bunch of skinny guys and fat guys in uniform, you'd be all like "Hey why is this guy all fat? He's not a soldier! I don't want to play some fat guy or this 90 pound weakling which can't fire a laser gun without falling over from the recoil."

In short, people want Captain America in their game, not so much Bucky. Sure they could stand on 'higher principle' and make 'realistic looking' people. The game wouldn't sell well and they'd probably not make another one, or eat that week because they're still paying back the publisher. Video Game making is as much business as it is art. They are designing a product which must appeal to a diverse audience to be successful, else it will never come to market at all.

Aww man, I'd totally play a Bucky O'Hare game! Best part of my childhood.
Wrong Bucky?
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Virtz

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1690 on: September 12, 2012, 07:17:18 am »

Those are men built like space marines? They're tiny compared to my space marine army.
I never said that. I said they're built like Ogryn, but that's still hyperbole. Thing is they're about as wide in the shoulders as humanly possible. And that's not really a trait all that useful for a soldier.

And look at this. Their upper arms are like twice as thick as those of the women. It's ridiculous.
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ScriptWolf

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1691 on: September 12, 2012, 07:29:14 am »

I personally don't see what the problem is with how the women are portrayed I don't see that they are over sexualised so i don't see the problem :P
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GlyphGryph

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1692 on: September 12, 2012, 07:44:07 am »

Incidentally, making decisions when designing a game so that it will be financially successful is not 'pandering to the stupid'. It is good business sense. If I made a game with a bunch of skinny guys and fat guys in uniform, you'd be all like "Hey why is this guy all fat? He's not a soldier! I don't want to play some fat guy or this 90 pound weakling which can't fire a laser gun without falling over from the recoil."

Variety is fun. Especially in turn based games with lots of characters. It also makes picking them out of the pack easier too if there are body type differences, so its often a mechanical improvement as well.

Of course, one of the worse traditions in gaming is that variety is only acceptable among men. Men can be tall, short, pudgy, slim, built like a tank, hairy, smooth, etc. and still look good, but every game seems to have only one acceptable "woman" type. Gotham City Imposters follows this trope to a tee. While it has a ton of body type variety, and is one of the best shooters around, there's still only one body type for women - all the variety goes to men. Team Fortress is obviously the same to an even greater extent, but still an amazing example that not everyone needs to look like a model to be visually interesting.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 07:53:44 am by GlyphGryph »
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Drakale

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1693 on: September 12, 2012, 09:16:07 am »

Hey why is this guy all fat? He's not a soldier! I don't want to play some fat guy or this 90 pound weakling which can't fire a laser gun without falling over from the recoil.

Turns out you need a laser of approximately 2 Giga Joules to get a significant recoil. Damn. Just holding the thing must be quite a feat. Who cares if he falls over, he just vaporised half the friggen map.
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forsaken1111

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #1694 on: September 12, 2012, 09:24:34 am »

Hey why is this guy all fat? He's not a soldier! I don't want to play some fat guy or this 90 pound weakling which can't fire a laser gun without falling over from the recoil.

Turns out you need a laser of approximately 2 Giga Joules to get a significant recoil. Damn. Just holding the thing must be quite a feat. Who cares if he falls over, he just vaporised half the friggen map.
/thatwasthejoke :P
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