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[Sergius]

Sure does. But like I said, having a certain aesthetic has no bearing on the gameplay or how "soldiery" vs how "swaty" it is.

On the contrary Aestetics is an important aspect of gameplay.

Also they did do "Swat-like" things in the original... if you didn't know the exploits... which you seem to have played the game entirely with them.

Reminds me of a strategy game I played once... where one faction could ENTIRELY ignore every single building, upgrade, and unit and just build exactly one to win. Since that strategy trumps all others.

Well, that is quite insulting, honestly. You may just as well say I "obviously" played with cheats and character editors and that I'm a one trick pony.

I've played this game in every way imaginable. I've played it with nothing but handguns. I've played with only lasers until the end, with flying forbidden. I've played walking using only the normal doors to UFOs. I've played only blowing holes into UFOs and using them as entrances. I've played by sending a guided bomb to make a hole on the bridge, then another to blow the commanders in the bridge, then another 2 dozen blaster bombs to obliterate everybody. I've played teams of 14, and I've played using only one soldier and leaving everyone else in the ship. I've played with psionics. I've played with no psionics allowed. I've played with no explosives whatsoever.

Seriously, if your best way to dismiss my arguments is "obviously you play the most boring and exploity way, that's why you missed all the awesome SWAT tactics" I don't think I want to continue arguing with you.

[Neonivek]

I've played only blowing holes into UFOs and using them as entrances

I've had a lot of trouble doing that. I actually assumed they were indestructible to normal weaponry for a while.

I've played this game in every way imaginable

Surprising. I didn't infer that from what you said. By your implication the ONLY way to play was to equip your entire team with autocannons and rockets and blow everything up and that the game outright steered you into it.

I will appologise however. Sorry about that.

[sambojin]

Space marines? Not really. Bulky armour? Yes. It is meant to help take shots from alien plasma weapons after all. Big guns? Yes. Again, the calibre of weaponry would have been chosen to meet the threat. Have a look at a PPK compared to a Desert Eagle. Both handguns, but very different in terms of scale, use, and "space marineyness".

I can see some of your point. The space marine idea has entered gamer's consciousness quite some time ago, so it's an easy idea for people to grasp onto. Aliens+armour+big guns=space marine to many people. It's kind of a pity that people's own narrow view of sci-fi allows them to identify with this concept so easily (and sometimes only this concept). Aren't there 10 marines to a normal tactical squad? Aren't they all hard as nails from the get-go, even without their armour? Aren't they quasi-religious nutters with all kinds of iconography and "lore" that goes along with the space marine concept?

I see the point about smaller squads giving a reduced sense of scale to XCom. For some reason my brain thinks of 6 troops and puts in the "must be special forces" tag joined to it, where-as 14 troop squads could be anything. It probably does make each troop a bit killier too (or will spread the kills more evenly around those 6 troops, the original often had a huge disparity of kills amongst your team, especially with laser pistol scouts dying all the time). I'm pretty sure that without good tactics your guys will be plenty squishy as well (even in power armour), something that marines aren't. Special forces, yeah, I could see that. Using the best tech earth has to offer (or can research).

But space marines? Because they've downed the squad size and upped the kill ratio a bit? Sounds pretty simplistically thought out as an argument.

[Neonivek]

I don't mind the reduced soldier load.

The sheer amount of Xcom units in the original can be considered a flaw.

I also realise that because you have less soldiers it means enemies cannot be as hearty... AND I also realise that since one of the specialists has to be the damage dealer, actually two of them, that they have to focus on making the damage dealers important and awsome.

Thus they have to be able to mow down enemies.

Everything I say is rather calculated even if I explain it as "SPACE MARINES!"

But space marines?

It is an aestetic choice in this game. Is there a problem with that?

[sambojin]

Not really. As mentioned, it lets people identify easily with what they'll be doing in-game. I actually like space marines (and all kinds of other GW stuff).

I just hope they don't over-use the idea too much.

[jocan2003]

Sure does. But like I said, having a certain aesthetic has no bearing on the gameplay or how "soldiery" vs how "swaty" it is.

On the contrary Aestetics is an important aspect of gameplay.

Also they did do "Swat-like" things in the original... if you didn't know the exploits... which you seem to have played the game entirely with them.

Reminds me of a strategy game I played once... where one faction could ENTIRELY ignore every single building, upgrade, and unit and just build exactly one to win. Since that strategy trumps all others.

I still like that they gave police officers guns and they may actually fire upon the aliens... (hmm I think I may be imagining this... where did I hear this?)

Was Xenonauts

[dogstile]

After watching the hour long stream i'm actually pumped for this. I can see myself being really stupid trying to save civvies in terror missions. I do worry that there is nothing stopping me from setting up overwatch and waiting for enemies to stumble into sight of my squad at the start of every mission though, especially with how I play.

[Neonivek]

After watching the hour long stream i'm actually pumped for this. I can see myself being really stupid trying to save civvies in terror missions. I do worry that there is nothing stopping me from setting up overwatch and waiting for enemies to stumble into sight of my squad at the start of every mission though, especially with how I play.

I think you are expected to do it somewhat. Given one of the class specialties.

[Sergius]

I've played only blowing holes into UFOs and using them as entrances

I've had a lot of trouble doing that. I actually assumed they were indestructible to normal weaponry for a while.

I've played this game in every way imaginable

Surprising. I didn't infer that from what you said. By your implication the ONLY way to play was to equip your entire team with autocannons and rockets and blow everything up and that the game outright steered you into it.

I will appologise however. Sorry about that.

Ok, accepted.

Look, I didn't say that it was the ONLY way to play that game. But if we're judging the game by looking at some typical gameplay in the new game, then might as well do the same to the old one. I mean, fair is fair, right?

If all you mean is that they look like Space Marines, then sure. The old X-Com members looked like superhero fake muscle suits... in a good, Tim Burtonesque way, I guess. But I generally don't see any difference in how a mission is supposed to go like in the footage we were just shown, and how it went in the old game. You arrived at a site, looked for the aliens, tried to keep within range of each other so nobody got overpowered, then blew up what needed blowing up, unless you were for some reason adverse to blowing shit up... then just sniping, I guess. I don't see any grand strategy or special abilities in play that made me think "special ops" or "swat". At least snipers have grappling hooks now.

Didn't you use explosives at all in the original game?

If anything, terror missions were a LOT more leisurely (is that a word?) since the aliens didn't make any extra effort to look for civilians other than smacking one down if it happened to show in their crosshairs, there was no rush to save anybody.

[Neonivek]

Didn't you use explosives at all in the original game?

Not often outside rocket tanks.

If all you mean is that they look like Space Marines, then sure

Yeah pretty much.

[MarcAFK]

I've played only blowing holes into UFOs and using them as entrances

I've had a lot of trouble doing that. I actually assumed they were indestructible to normal weaponry for a while.

"The Blaster Bomb is the only thing capable of blasting through a UFO outer hull (walls and roof). It does exactly 200 damage at the epicenter and only ever knocks out one tile. "
Also try reading the informative article in UFO pedia about explosions: http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Explosions#Object_Destruction
Specifically the part about 'blow-through' labelled "When Is a Wall not a Wall ", you can in some cases kill stuff THROUGH a wall without actually destroying the wall itself.

[dogstile]

After watching the hour long stream i'm actually pumped for this. I can see myself being really stupid trying to save civvies in terror missions. I do worry that there is nothing stopping me from setting up overwatch and waiting for enemies to stumble into sight of my squad at the start of every mission though, especially with how I play.

I think you are expected to do it somewhat. Given one of the class specialties.

Oh I can see that i'm supposed to, but because i'm a cautious player, i'd likely keep in cover for about 6 turns waiting for a patrol to run directly into the sights of my fortified squad at the start of every mission. Aside from terror missions fucking with that (and I can see assault classes being absolutely awesome for those missions) I don't see any reason for me not to do it. Which is a bit of a shame, because it'll make each mission play out the same.

Although I have no idea about the variety of missions, I've never given XCOM a real try before, the graphics from the first game (and it actually pains me to say this) hurts my eyes in such a way that I can't play for more than 10 minutes.

[Grakelin]

Hey, I just wanna say that XCOM's tactics are very little like a SWAT team's, since they emphasize murderizing everything they see and massive levels of property damage. They also don't have any capability to save innocents.

[Neonivek]

Hey, I just wanna say that XCOM's tactics are very little like a SWAT team's, since they emphasize murderizing everything they see and massive levels of property damage. They also don't have any capability to save innocents.

Really... NO ONE saw swat with taking out alien UFOs? Opening doors, throwing in the stun grenades, then running in to shoot while backup covers your rear?

Everyone... Every single person here just used ultimate power to blow everything up?

[nenjin]

Speaking of, are there still civilian rescues? Other than troops survival, that was one of the few things that kept me cautious during missions. Exploding the side of a building only to find you killed a civilian was a good motivator to play carefully.