Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Wrex]

Remember how the original sequel went?


I'm not saying it's going to be a wreck, just keep your bliddy head on straight and stay critical. That way, if it does turn out to be a wreck, you have the smug, self satisfaction of knowing you were right!

[Sharp]

If you don't want people to have an opinion about what you admit is a possible flaw in your perspective, best not to mention it. If a kleptomaniac is railing against theft laws, I think it's reasonable to say being a kleptomaniac may interfere with being able to appreciate multiple perspectives on the issue when that seems to be the case.

Really, if there was a more diplomatic way to say it, please post such an example. Otherwise, something something I don't think you really have much room to get offended on his behalf. If he hadn't called himself a fanboy and said it might be a flaw in his perspective, I wouldn't have mentioned it.

Yes I called myself a fanboy, my issue is that it has nothing to do with anything when I am saying Mass Effect and XCOM have similarities.

I would still like to know your definition of procedural generation btw.

Something that's more than an algorithm polling a list of options and rolling dice for how many of a thing to instantiate. Procedural generation, as a bullet point feature, is what DF does. Where things with many moving parts are formulated each time the game is created and objects reference each other to inform yet more procedural generation. X-Com's maps are procedurally generated to me (even though they're closer to random.) Enemies and enemy placement is not, particularly because there's little to no variance in the enemies themselves.

I'm sure that definition is unsatisfactory to you. Just about anything involving computer programming is procedural, one way or another. When it comes to content it's not a matter of definitions to me though, it's a matter of scope. And in that regard XCOM was not procedurally generated to me, for the most part.

Yeah unsatisfactory because it's not a very clear definition. Procedural generation is when its generated on the fly as opposed to being specified e.g. buildings in GTA 4 are all drawn by artists and created and fixed, however traffic is procedurally generated, it's not written that a truck will spawn and drive this way, you can't say generating a random map is procedural generation but not placing enemies in random positions. Some games have more procedural generation then others but it doesn't change the definition of what procedural generation is, and the argument was never about looking at the game as a whole and saying it's procedurally generated or not.

Yes I called myself a fanboy, my issue is that it has nothing to do with anything when I am saying Mass Effect and XCOM have similarities.

When the comparison being made is pejorative, I'd say that has something to do with your faithfulness to the original product. I read that as a dis against the newest game (because it's not a straight inflexible isometric perspective, and therefore isn't "XCOM.") Maybe you intend that just as a neutral statement of fact. I'd still disagree with it, but I'd be less tempted to post about it when it's neutral versus when it's coming from a "that's not MY game" place.

This is wrinkling my brain here. I initially said there are similarities between Mass Effect and this new XCOM game, you say it's because I'm a fanboy (which apparently makes all my points invalid?), I then refute that being a fanboy has anything to do with observing similarities between Mass Effect and XCOM and now you say it's a pejorative comparison?

How the fuck is saying there are similarities between Mass Effect and XCOM a pejorative comparison? The only issue of fanboyism is if you have an ingrained notion that Mass Effect is a terrible game so it being similar to any other game is insulting to another game.

Has me being a fanboy got anything to do with my comments on differences between original XCOM and new XCOM? Well big giant fucking Duh Yes Duh! Has it got anything to do with similarity with Mass Effect? No! Is it being pejorative when I am comparing Mass Effect and XCOM? That is entirely up to you apparently.

[nenjin]

Just trying to use it's lore doesn't make it an XCOM game, it's just superficial, it seems more like a turn based Mass Effect then the original game. Once again, not saying it is going to be a bad game, it looks fun (not as fun as original imo but fun nonetheless).

This new XCOM contains less gameplay features which is what I mean about it not being an XCOM game. The artwork is more superficial, you could change the aliens to Halo style Covenant enemies invading earth and call it a Halo game instead, which might make more sense as that's already a franchise being milked for all it's worth. It's the gameplay that makes the game and this doesn't seem like an XCOM game.

Also in regards to the 4-6 man squad issue, I mean that it's not a tactical/logistical choice anymore, and you won't be able to get that same sensation of coming in with a 12 man squad and leaving with 3 survivors, or having to abort the mission and making it a race to get back to the skyranger with a concious soldier so you don't lose the aircraft as well.

Mmm yeah, nothing pejorative about that at all.

I'm gonna let it drop there before the swearing and such gets someone to report the thread.

[Sharp]

Just trying to use it's lore doesn't make it an XCOM game, it's just superficial, it seems more like a turn based Mass Effect then the original game. Once again, not saying it is going to be a bad game, it looks fun (not as fun as original imo but fun nonetheless).

This new XCOM contains less gameplay features which is what I mean about it not being an XCOM game. The artwork is more superficial, you could change the aliens to Halo style Covenant enemies invading earth and call it a Halo game instead, which might make more sense as that's already a franchise being milked for all it's worth. It's the gameplay that makes the game and this doesn't seem like an XCOM game.

Also in regards to the 4-6 man squad issue, I mean that it's not a tactical/logistical choice anymore, and you won't be able to get that same sensation of coming in with a 12 man squad and leaving with 3 survivors, or having to abort the mission and making it a race to get back to the skyranger with a concious soldier so you don't lose the aircraft as well.

Mmm yeah, nothing pejorative about that at all.

I'm gonna let it drop there before the swearing and such gets someone to report the thread.

Well done in quoting that which wasn't the quoted issue in the first place, a great way to end your point. You probably have a different definition of pejorative as well I suppose.

[Flying Dice]

Just trying to use it's lore doesn't make it an XCOM game, it's just superficial, it seems more like a turn based Mass Effect then the original game. Once again, not saying it is going to be a bad game, it looks fun (not as fun as original imo but fun nonetheless).

This new XCOM contains less gameplay features which is what I mean about it not being an XCOM game. The artwork is more superficial, you could change the aliens to Halo style Covenant enemies invading earth and call it a Halo game instead, which might make more sense as that's already a franchise being milked for all it's worth. It's the gameplay that makes the game and this doesn't seem like an XCOM game.

Also in regards to the 4-6 man squad issue, I mean that it's not a tactical/logistical choice anymore, and you won't be able to get that same sensation of coming in with a 12 man squad and leaving with 3 survivors, or having to abort the mission and making it a race to get back to the skyranger with a concious soldier so you don't lose the aircraft as well.

Mmm yeah, nothing pejorative about that at all.

I'm gonna let it drop there before the swearing and such gets someone to report the thread.

Well done in quoting that which wasn't the quoted issue in the first place, a great way to end your point. You probably have a different definition of pejorative as well I suppose.

pe·jor·a·tive (p-jôr-tv, -jr-, pj-rtv, pj-)
adj.
1. Tending to make or become worse.
2. Disparaging; belittling.
n.
A disparaging or belittling word or expression.

So yes, nenjin does. Assuming that your definition is "whatever I want it to be" or "whatever I think makes me look like I'm right". You were making comparisons that cast aspects of the game in a decidely negative light. You're saying, "This isn't how it used to be, instead it's like, ugh, this." Seems pretty clear to me that you're making stuff up on the fly to cover yourself. But whatever. Not interested in an argument at this hour, just thought that I'd drop by to be your grumpy neighborhood dictionary.

[ZebioLizard2]

And people wonder why they tend to ignore the previous fanbase at times, even when they try and reach out they get "IT'S NOT X, STOP CALLING IT X BECAUSE IT AINT 100% LIKE THE ORIGINAL! DOWN TO THE STUFF THAT DIDN'T WORK RIGHT!"

[Grakelin]

Lots of stuff getting lost in here, but I want to refer to a complaint made about the mutons' new appearance a couple pages ago.

In the original game, Mutons were purple monkies wearing extremely tight neon green jumpsuits.



I've never been less afraid of something in my entire life.

[Sharp]

I like how everyone is assuming my denial of being pejorative are in relation to all my comments even though I have stated multiple times my denial is specifically with linking Mass Effect and XCOM and everyone who is then quoting me again is quoting on stuff I can fully understand as being perceived as being pejorative.

Is there anyone who can see me being pejorative when I am relating Mass Effect and XCOM?

---

Lots of stuff getting lost in here, but I want to refer to a complaint made about the mutons' new appearance a couple pages ago.

In the original game, Mutons were purple monkies wearing extremely tight neon green jumpsuits.



I've never been less afraid of something in my entire life.

If you saw that coming to you in a dark alleyway it will haunt you for life! I can fully agree that my opinions on old mutons are nostalgic, I think I was 8 or 9 when I first played UFO: EU and the muton's in the intro video killing the civilians seemed scary, and after facing them in combat they seemed like deadly soldiers who wouldn't die even when shooting them with rocket launchers or blaster bombs, they actually look like genetically engineered super-soldiers (in neon green spandex) while in the new one they die from one hit of anything and look like fat guys in fatter suits, they don't look like super soldiers but I suppose if I was 8 or 9 they might seem more scary.

[Shadowgandor]

Why do you assume they die in one hit? The game even has an X-COM difficulty mode which supposedly makes it ballbreakingly hard. I haven't seen any videos lately but even if a video showed a muton getting oneshotted, this doesn't mean that they are now weaker but only that the game was most likely on a lower difficulty so everyone could pick&play the game without failing miserably in front of the crowd

[Dohon]

On a lighter note, there is a new trailer out. Watch it here. Lots of flashy footage (including some more footage of the new and huge Sectopod!), but nothing indepth.

[Sergius]

Lots of stuff getting lost in here, but I want to refer to a complaint made about the mutons' new appearance a couple pages ago.

In the original game, Mutons were purple monkies wearing extremely tight neon green jumpsuits.



I've never been less afraid of something in my entire life.

WARNING: Not for the faint of heart.

Spoiler: DO NOT CLICK (click to show/hide)

[sluissa]

Honestly, as a kid, the original X-Com was what made me afraid of the dark... those damn night missions. Sectoids specifically because they looked creepy. I didn't have as much interaction with the Mutons, but they still scared me as well, mostly from the opening scene. I don't care if it's bright green, bright orange, beige or pale pink. They slaughtered my men by the dozens. They're scary.

[Mephansteras]

Why do you assume they die in one hit? The game even has an X-COM difficulty mode which supposedly makes it ballbreakingly hard. I haven't seen any videos lately but even if a video showed a muton getting oneshotted, this doesn't mean that they are now weaker but only that the game was most likely on a lower difficulty so everyone could pick&play the game without failing miserably in front of the crowd

Yeah, they specifically mentioned in one of the interviews that the muton getting taken out by a shotgun was done to show off the engine. An actual in-game muton probably wouldn't even get scratched by that low-tech of a gun.

[Flying Dice]

Why do you assume they die in one hit? The game even has an X-COM difficulty mode which supposedly makes it ballbreakingly hard. I haven't seen any videos lately but even if a video showed a muton getting oneshotted, this doesn't mean that they are now weaker but only that the game was most likely on a lower difficulty so everyone could pick&play the game without failing miserably in front of the crowd

Yeah, they specifically mentioned in one of the interviews that the muton getting taken out by a shotgun was done to show off the engine. An actual in-game muton probably wouldn't even get scratched by that low-tech of a gun.

And so yet again we are reminded why making assumptions about a game based on trailers or []con footage is a bad idea, not that it'll stop people from doing it. Demo clips tend to be played on low difficulties because making a game =/= being good at a game. They want to show off how it looks, not give people a chance to laugh at someone getting slaughtered over and over.

[Neonivek]

Honestly, as a kid, the original X-Com was what made me afraid of the dark... those damn night missions. Sectoids specifically because they looked creepy. I didn't have as much interaction with the Mutons, but they still scared me as well, mostly from the opening scene. I don't care if it's bright green, bright orange, beige or pale pink. They slaughtered my men by the dozens. They're scary.

Honestly if there is ONE creature that they shouldn't have changed in the new Xcom it would be the Sectoids.

It doesn't help that the Sectoids were my favorite aliens in the first... but the new one doesn't even attempt to use their themes.