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[Rince Wind]

It seem to be premade random maps though? If they were truly random they would not need to stress that you will not get the same map again. Unless the maps are really small.

The (inventory) interface was not good back then, it clearly needs an overhaul. But I liked the Apocalypse inventory, where you would give stuff to the individual soldiers in the base. Though having space in the craft as well would be awesome. Well, no more Skyrangers on the map, so that won't happen.

I know you can still have sensor/fighter bases, and as I said, that is not much of an issue for me.

I don't say it is shallower, but from what I read so far, it seems shallower to me. Probably because the features where it is more complex are not what I really like. I am not a fan of using a class based system in X-COM, and in this context skills that are tied to a class do not appeal to me either.
I can't play it right away anyway.

[Sharp]

Er, from where I'm sitting, it's packing more features than the originals. What is it missing that makes it falls so short on gameplay in your mind?

Er, from where I'm sitting, it's packing more features than the originals. What is it missing that makes it falls so short on gameplay in your mind?

Where the hell are you sitting? A hotbox?

It's got no random map generation
Story based mission line
No global management aside from choosing where to send your mission (and conversely where not to send)
No real base management because from what I have heard there is no base invasion and apparently all the base building is basically saying build all similar facilities close to each other (apparently having gaps in labs causes research deficiency)
Limited equipment management (and infinite ammo, it's heavy weapons guy packing infinity rockets??)

and lots of other stuff which I have already said before, I don't see why I have to rehash it out again, rather if you don't think they are differences then you should state your reasoning.

Anyway I'm not trying to slate the game saying it's going to be terrible and crap, I'm just saying it's not really an XCOM game, XCOM: Enforcer wasn't an XCOM game either. Just trying to use it's lore doesn't make it an XCOM game, it's just superficial, it seems more like a turn based Mass Effect then the original game. Once again, not saying it is going to be a bad game, it looks fun (not as fun as original imo but fun nonetheless).

To be honest my biggest pet peeve is the whole naming of it. For non-Europeans it seems like a different name being XCOM: Enemy Unknown as opposed to XCOM: UFO Defence while in Europe the original was called UFO: Enemy Unknown so it seems like a cheap naming instead of giving it an original name to separate it from the original game. 

[nenjin]

it seems more like a turn based Mass Effect then the original game. Once again, not saying it is going to be a bad game, it looks fun (not as fun as original imo but fun nonetheless).

That's not stopping you from lampooning it as "turn-based Mass Effect" though, which is about as much of an exaggeration as you could make.

I get not everyone thinks its X-Com. Then again, the litmus test for what would make it X-Com seems pretty unreasonable to me. And again, I found inventory management to be micro overkill. In a handful of cases it mattered. My reasoning, as someone that didn't obsessively play X-Com, is that generally they've streamlined it and made it a tighter game. A few fewer options, I don't disagree with. But not to the point where "ZOMG It's not X-Com!!!1111"

There are other titles out there you direct that unhappiness at and it's far more valid.

[timferius]

Out of curiosity, what global management was in the original? Aside from dropping your bases, intercepting ufos, and sending out skyrangers? All of these are in the new one... Mind you, they haven't shown all that much of the global view yet. Is it still real time has anyone mentioned?

[Werdna]

Looks like an X-Com reboot to me, and far truer to the original than most of the other 'X-Com' crap out there.  Not sure why anyone would set their expectations for a 100% faithful remake - when does that ever happen, in like, any medium?  I loved the original, but it was larded up with a lot of tedious micromanagement (which keeps getting trotted out here as 'features') and half the stuff I hear out of the new one seems to be trimming that lard off - so good on them.

Random maps sounds cool until you recall that the original's maps were hardly very 'different' even if they were random (and most of the time you were clearing the same ship layouts every single time - so give me a break).  Personally, I'd rather have loads of thought out maps with tons of unique features for new tactical situations as opposed to, "Oh look its another barn!  Only this one has a fence around it!  So different from the barn on the last map..."  If the new one is moddable enough to accept new crafted maps - even better. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And let's be perfectly honest - the only time a random X-Com map was EVER exciting is when we revealed a gas station with enemies hiding around the gas pumps. 

To be honest my biggest pet peeve is the whole naming of it.

Man, c'mon, listen to yourself.  I'm sorry its a disappointment to you, but it sounds to me like you already have the X-Com you're dreaming of.

[Drakale]

So the maps are not random, but are the UFO location and the skyranger landing zone randomized? I really hope so...
I really hate the thought of replaying the exact same configuration multiple times. A predictable game is not a very
replayable game in my opinion.

[Sharp]

To be honest my biggest pet peeve is the whole naming of it.

Man, c'mon, listen to yourself.  I'm sorry its a disappointment to you, but it sounds to me like you already have the X-Com you're dreaming of.

Indeed I do, and as a fanboy I can gripe as much as I want of them using the name of the original, I griped about XCOM: Enforcer I can gripe about this.

That's not stopping you from lampooning it as "turn-based Mass Effect" though, which is about as much of an exaggeration as you could make.

I don't see it as that much of an exaggeration, there are a lot of similarities, you have your class based soldiers which have class specific abilities and specialise in class specific weapons, and your enemies follow the same pattern of specific classes, abilities and weapons. The only difference between Mass Effect combat and this is one being a 3rd Person Squad Tactical (pausable) shooter and this being a turn based squad game.

If this game is moddable it would be incredibly easy to just change it to a Mass Effect Universe and call the game Mass Effect Tactics

[nenjin]

and your enemies follow the same pattern of specific classes, abilities and weapons.

Right. Because X-Com enemies prior to this were procedurally generated and no single unit from a species resembled another unit from the same species.

The only difference between Mass Effect combat and this is one being a 3rd Person Squad Tactical (pausable) shooter and this being a turn based squad game.

In other words, a huge freaking difference.

[Rince Wind]

So the maps are not random, but are the UFO location and the skyranger landing zone randomized? I really hope so...
I really hate the thought of replaying the exact same configuration multiple times. A predictable game is not a very
replayable game in my opinion.

You won't have a Skyranger on the map anymore. I am not sure about the UFO. But the entry points for your soldiers will be randomized.

[Sharp]

and your enemies follow the same pattern of specific classes, abilities and weapons.

Right. Because X-Com enemies prior to this were procedurally generated and no single unit from a species resembled another unit from the same species.

I mean that the enemies in Mass Effect seem to fall into a similar class structure of your own units, you have the enemy giant with his regen ability or the enemy infilitrator which also fires sniper weapons and has some disabling ability. While in UFO:EU any of your units can use any weapons, and the aliens can use various weapons although they do have classes as well which can be holding more specific weaponry. Technically they are procedurally generated just like the map.

The only difference between Mass Effect combat and this is one being a 3rd Person Squad Tactical (pausable) shooter and this being a turn based squad game.

In other words, a huge freaking difference.

Not really, there are so many similarities its uncanny, you practically play Mass Effect like a turn based game anyway by pausing it to move your party into positions and then telling them what abilities to use on which enemy and it's all about cover based shooting and flanking or using special abilities.

And hey 3 man team in mass effect, only slightly smaller then the 4 man team in this XCOM reboot.

[nenjin]

Technically they are procedurally generated just like the map.

Er, no they're not. They're a standard template with standard options, it didn't build aliens from scratch everytime you loaded a map.. Which is functionally no different than what's going on now. You seem to be bugged by the class concept of player characters, and are conflating that to the whole game. There was structure in the other X-Coms too, it simply didn't state it to you.

Considering the forum you're on, I'd think you'd use the actual, meaningful definition of "procedurally generated."

Not really, there are so many similarities its uncanny, you practically play Mass Effect like a turn based game anyway by pausing it to move your party into positions and then telling them what abilities to use on which enemy and it's all about cover based shooting and flanking or using special abilities.

And hey 3 man team in mass effect, only slightly smaller then the 4 man team in this XCOM reboot.

Firstly, ME is a 3rd person action shooter. Just because you can pause it and give orders so that an AI walks your character over there does not mean a TBS game and an action shooter "are the same." From mechanically to procedurally, they're different. And I think your fanboy isn't letting you admit that.

Secondly, squad size starts at 4, and goes up slightly from there.

[Sharp]

Technically they are procedurally generated just like the map.

Er, no they're not. They're a standard template with standard options, it didn't build aliens from scratch everytime you loaded a map.. Which is functionally no different than what's going on now. You seem to be bugged by the class concept of player characters, and are conflating that to the whole game. There was structure in the other X-Coms too, it simply didn't state it to you.

Considering the forum you're on, I'd think you'd use the actual, meaningful definition of "procedurally generated."

As a computer scientist I feel I know what I'm talking about when I say procedurally generated, apparently you don't because procedural generation doesn't mean generated from scratch, it means generated with an algorithm, an algorithm might just be a RNG but if it's generating content (like XCOM Maps) and enemies (like the equipment on Aliens) then it's still procedural generation.

You save before starting landing on a mission in XCOM and load it again you will get a different map, with possibly a different number of enemies who are possibly equipped differently, there are a lot of rules in place but there is no equipment template of what aliens will exactly be using.

Not really, there are so many similarities its uncanny, you practically play Mass Effect like a turn based game anyway by pausing it to move your party into positions and then telling them what abilities to use on which enemy and it's all about cover based shooting and flanking or using special abilities.

And hey 3 man team in mass effect, only slightly smaller then the 4 man team in this XCOM reboot.

Firstly, ME is a 3rd person action shooter. Just because you can pause it and give orders so that an AI walks your character over there does not mean a TBS game and an action shooter "are the same." From mechanically to procedurally, they're different. And I think your fanboy isn't letting you admit that.

Secondly, squad size starts at 4, and goes up slightly from there.

Well 1st of to address your second point, yes I know squad size starts at 4, hence why I said the 3 man team in mass effect slightly smaller then 4 man team in XCOM, and the slightly it goes up to is 6, big whoop. Great way to argue my point by just restating it.

Secondly yes they are different games with different mechanics, I am saying that the gameplay is similar though, I'm not saying that this is a Mass Effect game, I am saying you can change the characters to mass effect characters and same for abilities and call it Mass Effect Tactics, very superficial changes. I don't see how me being an XCOM fanboy is affecting that in anyway whatsoever.

That you can't see any similarities in Mass Effect and this new XCOM just makes me think you don't have a clue.

[Sergius]

That you can't see any similarities in Mass Effect and this new XCOM just makes me think you don't have a clue.

If you don't see it my way, you're stoopid? O...kay...

[nenjin]

As a computer scientist I feel I know what I'm talking about when I say procedurally generated, apparently you don't because procedural generation doesn't mean generated from scratch, it means generated with an algorithm, an algorithm might just be a RNG but if it's generating content (like XCOM Maps) and enemies (like the equipment on Aliens) then it's still procedural generation.

*sigh* Yes, yes. Now remember what I said about where we are and what procedural generation means to people around here.

You save before starting landing on a mission in XCOM and load it again you will get a different map, with possibly a different number of enemies who are possibly equipped differently, there are a lot of rules in place but there is no equipment template of what aliens will exactly be using.

It doesn't just randomly generate the profiles of the aliens. That should be pretty obvious. Nor does it "procedurally" generate them on a basis other than a random number and a random selection within the profiles for the aliens. Which, as far as any of us know, that's exactly how the new X-Com works.

Well 1st of to address your second point, yes I know squad size starts at 4, hence why I said the 3 man team in mass effect slightly smaller then 4 man team in XCOM, and the slightly it goes up to is 6, big whoop. Great way to argue my point by just restating it.

So you're just bitching about squads being off by a couple for the sake of bitching then? Because you have no real point other than "derp, one game has 4 guys, and this game has 4 guys at some point, so they're the same." Or should we start comparing it to every game that has X playable characters? You have no point, other than you don't like it.

Secondly yes they are different games with different mechanics, I am saying that the gameplay is similar though, I'm not saying that this is a Mass Effect game, I am saying you can change the characters to mass effect characters and same for abilities and call it Mass Effect Tactics, very superficial changes. I don't see how me being an XCOM fanboy is affecting that in anyway whatsoever.

It makes you a fanboi because you're finding any trivial example to justify why you don't think it's good. Even if it's already beyond the point of being absurd.

That you can't see any similarities in Mass Effect and this new XCOM just makes me think you don't have a clue.

Or, Jesus Christ, I give games credit for being different instead of trying to make tenuous comparisons between them to justify my fan butt-hurt-ness. Your example would be just as ridiculous if it were "XCOM is like Final Fantasy Tactics." Or any other game you could compare based on the tiny criteria you've chosen to use.

[ZebioLizard2]

You save before starting landing on a mission in XCOM and load it again you will get a different map, with possibly a different number of enemies who are possibly equipped differently, there are a lot of rules in place but there is no equipment template of what aliens will exactly be using.

Actually everytime I saved before a mission it was the exact same one I kept landing at.