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Author Topic: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)  (Read 973534 times)

crazysheep

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8490 on: October 27, 2014, 11:32:18 pm »

Ok, given that I have no idea what LW does to MEC trooper stats, I'll give my 2 cents on MECs in vanilla EW. (note: I personally like using MECs, if only to cheese the finale and make it a cakewalk.)

1. MEC troopers gain less experience for a kill compared to a regular soldier (half the XP gain, iirc). Their Aim and Will stat increases also tend to be lower than a regular soldier. On a regular mission, this means that using a MEC as a regular soldier makes them rank up way, way slower than the rest of the squad. I suppose this feature is required to balance out the massive tankiness MECs offer.

2. MECs are a good option over SHIVs, for the following reasons: MEC troopers can rank up (unless they're already at Colonel rank); MECs typically have higher HP pools than a SHIV of similar tech level (eg. a basic SHIV has 10 HP, a level 1 MEC has a minimum of 8+5 HP); MECs have good killy AoE subsystem options compared to SHIVs; MECs are one of the only units to be able to lockdown Sectopods with minimal possibility of missing (the other unit is an Archangel 120 Aim sniper with disabling shot, a SCOPE and genemod).
On the other hand, SHIVs have the following advantages: they're expendable; can be improved through Foundry upgrades to suppress stuff, close combat reaction fire, infinite healing so long as the SHIV doesn't take a crit; lategame SHIVs can fly; SHIVs cannot be mindcontrolled; and finally, SHIVs don't need meld for production.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8491 on: October 28, 2014, 03:21:19 am »

My thoughts:
MECs begin the game as tanks, however as the game goes on they become more akin to a light support vehicle as their health goes up but so does the damage of enemy weapons.  Against low damage aliens they are effectively invincible but against high damage enemies they will take maybe 1 or 2 more hits than a normal squadmate, while being greatly less capable of avoiding damage.  Lategame they go back to being tanks a little but frankly once you've got Colonel MECs in 3rd level suits the game is almost over.

Overall I'd say at all points in the game they are superior to standard soldiers simply because they are arguably as tough and offensively better, however with the added meld and cash costs they are balanced.  The only class that truly falls behind MECs in my opinion is the support, as they are weaker offensively and defensively in almost every situation and their main special ability, being the medi-kit mule, you only need one of.  All of the other classes can offensively match or out-do MECs if they take advantage of their class skill.

MECs still use cover in a way, but they can only use concealment.  Think like you're playing Frozen Synapse; try to set up keyhole positions where the MEC can only see one or two enemies at a time, or ideally let the enemies come to you.  They shouldn't be in front if there are revealed enemies, and they should NEVER be in the sights of more than one high-damage pack at once.  Within a team their main value is, oddly enough, cover busting.  Grenades fall off quickly but their value in destroying cover never goes away.  MECs not only get 4 grenades as an almost forced choice, but they can launch them mortar style eliminating the main weakness of grenades.

One last thing is that while it might be tempting to think of converting soldiers in terms of what the class bonus is, its often better to think more in terms of what the squad is losing as the class bonus tends to be relatively minor in the grand scheme of things and this choice is one of the main ways you choose your squad comp in vanilla.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8492 on: October 28, 2014, 05:18:33 pm »

One of the reason I like MECs is that since they don't have to have cover, I can suddenly use them to draw fire without feeling guilty (of course, only when a few enemies/they're tanks)
The AI is pretty easy to predict in that aspect. In my experience, if an alien sees a guy in cover with 1 health and a non-horrible chance to hit, and a person with full health and extremely high chance to hit, they'll go for full health, high hit chance every time. I just use this to place my MECs to draw the fire while the injured retreat, rest open fire, etc.
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Robosaur

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8493 on: October 28, 2014, 05:26:46 pm »

btw the game will crash if you place a mine and then an enemy spawns on it.
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Shadowlord

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8494 on: October 28, 2014, 07:19:13 pm »

One of the reason I like MECs is that since they don't have to have cover, I can suddenly use them to draw fire without feeling guilty (of course, only when a few enemies/they're tanks)
The AI is pretty easy to predict in that aspect. In my experience, if an alien sees a guy in cover with 1 health and a non-horrible chance to hit, and a person with full health and extremely high chance to hit, they'll go for full health, high hit chance every time. I just use this to place my MECs to draw the fire while the injured retreat, rest open fire, etc.

I'm finding it amusing to use mind-controlled enemies for that, especially since I seem to get their guns if they're killed by enemies - and they can open meld canisters for me as well.
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NobodyPro

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8495 on: October 29, 2014, 04:02:15 am »

One of the reason I like MECs is that since they don't have to have cover, I can suddenly use them to draw fire without feeling guilty (of course, only when a few enemies/they're tanks)
The AI is pretty easy to predict in that aspect. In my experience, if an alien sees a guy in cover with 1 health and a non-horrible chance to hit, and a person with full health and extremely high chance to hit, they'll go for full health, high hit chance every time. I just use this to place my MECs to draw the fire while the injured retreat, rest open fire, etc.

I'm finding it amusing to use mind-controlled enemies for that, especially since I seem to get their guns if they're killed by enemies - and they can open meld canisters for me as well.
That's really nice to know as I unlock psychic powers.
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Sheb

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8496 on: October 30, 2014, 07:27:16 pm »

So I got some EXALT artifact and EXALT intelligence from EXALT missions, but I cannot seem to sell it on the grey market, or see it anywhere. What can I do with the stuff?
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Flying Dice

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8497 on: October 30, 2014, 07:31:34 pm »

By my recollection, it's just a sort of placeholder thing akin to extra Outsider crystals. All that running ops on cells does is narrow the potential EXALT base locations.
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Neonivek

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8498 on: October 30, 2014, 07:32:34 pm »

You know... I am not sure how much I like the fact that basically Humans are the perfect being and most powerful in the galaxy.
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Flying Dice

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8499 on: October 30, 2014, 07:37:50 pm »

*out of ~5 other species, one of which isn't sapient, and only one of which other than humans has a significant degree of psionic potential. And all save one of which have been systematically turned into tools for war. Not to mention that the "victory" humanity grabs is possible solely because the Ethereals are pulling their punches for literally the entire series because they want human psi-drone soldiers. Or possibly to push us into being strong enough to help fuck over whatever they're scared of.

I know the HFY tends to flow thick and strong around X-com, but you're projecting just a wee bit.  :P
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Rolan7

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8500 on: October 30, 2014, 07:38:50 pm »

You know... I am not sure how much I like the fact that basically Humans are the perfect being and most powerful in the galaxy.

Except in Apocalypse!  I can never have enough cyborgs and hybrids.
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8501 on: October 30, 2014, 07:40:03 pm »

Dunno, hybrids were kinda sucky. Most of the aliens are immune to psionics anyway in apocalypse, and hybrids rarely survived long enough to be of use in combat compared to a human.

Robots were pretty boss though.
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crazysheep

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8502 on: October 31, 2014, 12:26:34 am »

So I got some EXALT artifact and EXALT intelligence from EXALT missions, but I cannot seem to sell it on the grey market, or see it anywhere. What can I do with the stuff?
Eh, usually EXALT artifacts are gotten from the EXALT base raid, iirc those can be sold. On the other hand, EXALT intel refers to each clue that you uncover regarding the possible EXALT base location. (aka what FD said)
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Neonivek

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8503 on: October 31, 2014, 04:40:09 am »

*out of ~5 other species, one of which isn't sapient, and only one of which other than humans has a significant degree of psionic potential. And all save one of which have been systematically turned into tools for war. Not to mention that the "victory" humanity grabs is possible solely because the Ethereals are pulling their punches for literally the entire series because they want human psi-drone soldiers. Or possibly to push us into being strong enough to help fuck over whatever they're scared of.

I know the HFY tends to flow thick and strong around X-com, but you're projecting just a wee bit.  :P

Given that we end up being bulkier then the bulkiest alien and more psychic then the biggest psionic paragons.

I don't know ORIGINALLY I thought the Etherials were going to put their minds in our bodies... but apparently I misheard that...
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8504 on: October 31, 2014, 04:56:02 am »

I'm pretty sure that only MECs are larger than Mutons (which means it doesn't count because it's artificial), and I'm pretty sure Ethereals have more will than most, if not all Xcom soldiers can achieve (120 at Easy, 155 at Impossible), while all having the same Rift ability that only one psionic Human soldier can achieve throughout the game.
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