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Author Topic: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)  (Read 973810 times)

Flying Dice

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8265 on: September 06, 2014, 12:52:28 am »

Hoo boy, Long War is starting to ramp up more. Just as I got comfortably settled with a set of laser + armor for a full squad, I started getting a mission rate of around 1 per 2-3 days. And y'know that council escort mission on the observatory map? That was murder. I stealth-cheesed it, then after making my Geoscape save I went back and loaded it from the start, just to see what it'd be like to fight it. I got a rough count of ~20-25 Thin Men (and, LW being LW and this being in July-August IIRC, they all had 8+ health and basically never missed, and I spent the combat with ~30% of my squad acid-debuffed constantly), along with a lone Seeker.

It took me something like two hours of reloading to beat that without just skirting the edge of the map at a dead sprint, at which point I laughed and decided that if I ever got that mission again I'd do the same stealth routine and not try to beat it later, because spirits, what a clusterfuck -- made worse by the rocketeer, who managed to rack up a solid four misses that crippled the squad and wiped their cover over the course of who-knows-how-many attempts.

Even more annoying is that after giving me downed UFOs filled with a dozen+ mutons in early May, the game is now refusing to give me any when I need the corpses for the ammo upgrade. :x

Fun times, though. This is well past the temporal point where I got bored of vanilla being a curbstomp with no challenge to it.
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8266 on: September 06, 2014, 03:47:16 am »

I think we should give Long War its own thread. I have lots of questions I would be interested to hear people's opinion on.

I managed to just barely beat vanilla on ironman/classic and I haven't made it 3 months in LW before giving up because every raven is down and my highest ranking remaining trooper is a Lance Corporal or what ever the third rank is.

What research order do you guys go in? I assume people either focus on getting a live alien, getting lasers, or getting armor first. What buildings do you guys build?

I generally still start out with a sat link and a satellite. I also build a shiv and auto loader right off.

umiman

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8267 on: September 06, 2014, 06:13:18 am »

Get lasers. Buy soldiers. Equip everyone with accuracy boosting stuff. Build whatever, you have plenty of time.

Play defensive and use your ridiculous numbers advantage to slaughter everything in one turn. If you find you're not capable of beating any aggroed enemy in one turn, adjust your tactics until you can do so successively. If you find yourself in a situation where you can't actually do this, retreat as far back as possible and start again. Do not under any circumstances move forward or risk aggroing any other enemy until the enemy you are currently fighting is dead. This includes anything that can go invisible. Hell, if at all possible, learn how stalkers move and nuke them while they're still invis.

Some alien ships are not actually possible for you to shoot down at your tech level, so if you encounter something you probably can't beat just retreat the raven and attack the ship when it lands (provided you can detect it).

It's perfectly fine to lose nations. You lose a little bit of money but who fucking cares. You get so much money from the shittonnes of missions you have to undertake anyway by selling stuff on the grey market. You can capture them back anyway. Not to mention when you board one of those ships you couldn't shoot down, when you win you get so, so, so, so, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much stuff.

Regular missions are pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Remember that you are always aiming to be able to wipe out the enemy in one turn. So move your units like they're going to fight something immediately and can nuke the shit out of it.

Terror missions are tough. Bring your A-game as you'll be outnumbered to hell and back. You also have to rescue a lot of civilians so you can't casually take your time like with regular missions. No real advice here, but try to nuke everything in one turn.

The hardest missions are the council missions and DLC missions. This is where you'll have to face ridiculous odds like 17 thin men at a time or nonsense like that. Your best bet is either to hunker in one corner and shoot everything down (there's a limited number of enemies) or if it's timed, treat it like a super tough terror mission. FFS make sure everyone has medkits.

----

Aside from the changes to the techs and stuff, the strategy is honestly not that different from an impossible ironman run. It's significantly longer though, and the council missions are way, way harder. However, the huge number of soldiers you can bring along make the game actually a bit easy for experienced players.

andrewas

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8268 on: September 06, 2014, 07:06:24 am »

I think we should give Long War its own thread. I have lots of questions I would be interested to hear people's opinion on.

I managed to just barely beat vanilla on ironman/classic and I haven't made it 3 months in LW before giving up because every raven is down and my highest ranking remaining trooper is a Lance Corporal or what ever the third rank is.

On shoot down scouts, or fighters if you have some stringray equipped ships. Anything larger gets ignored or hit once to encourage it to abandon its mission.  Rotate extra interceptors through continents you are not using to give you room to maintain a viable force on your current continent. Foundry projects have a major impact on your interceptors chances, so do them if at all possible.

Quote
What research order do you guys go in? I assume people either focus on getting a live alien, getting lasers, or getting armor first. What buildings do you guys build?

Beam lasers. Advanced beam lasers. The extra accuracy makes a huge difference for your ground forces and the laser cannon is stupidly powerful compared to the avalanche missile. Then armor. Phalax is nice but expensive for what it is, you want to get to carapace.

Quote
I generally still start out with a sat link and a satellite. I also build a shiv and auto loader right off.

Shiv, yes, sat-link is tricky, the income each sat brings in is much less than in the vanilla game, and sat links support fewer sats now. Putting it off to the second month is viable.

Workshops are much more important now as you're going to be spending much more on items. Labs are also important because research times are painful without.
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Flying Dice

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8269 on: September 06, 2014, 12:54:07 pm »

The Air Game

1. Early on, use a mix of Avalanches and Stingrays. Avalanches have better damage, Stingrays have better armor pen.

2. If you get a UFO you can't beat without taking insane losses, intercept and then abort as soon as the combat screen opens. An aborted interception is much better than letting a UFO go free, as far as the Council reports are concerned.

3. Make sure to share kills around your fighters. Every kill gives a slight combat bonus in future fights.

4. Learn the different flight paths. NOE (Nape of the Earth) means they're coming in for a landing. The highest altitude one (mostly seen in Fighters, which pulse purple on the globe map) means they're hunting for satellites. In the case of the latter, do as much damage as possible; increased damage on a UFO decreases the chances of it killing a satellite.

Research and Manufacturing

1. Beam Lasers + Advanced Beam Lasers ASAP. SCOPES ASAP. Armor.

2. Fuck SHIVs. You can bring more troops, and half-cover is much better than it is in vanilla. Maybe later once you've got better equipment for them.

3. Build labs and workshops. Make sure to get the bonus adjacency bonuses from the Foundry &c.

4. Don't worry as much about satellites. You'll be hard-pressed to cover even two continents until you've got a half-dozen laser-armed fighters on each anyways, and as long as you have at least one country in the project you can always recover. The xenos also tend to focus on subverting one continent at a time, starting from their initial base.

5. Recruit ALL the soldiers. Seriously, this is nothing like vanilla in this regard, mainly because of how fatigue works. You'll want at least 24 field-capable troops and 24 extras to train by the third month.

6. Get your first officer upgrade ASAP. The perk that reduces fatigue time by 1 day for squads that the looies are in is a godsend. Make sure to make high-Will soldiers your officers.

Tactical

1. Exactly as umiman said here. Engage pods one at a time, and aim to wipe each one out in a single turn. Generally the way missions go in LW is that either you perform perfectly through luck and sound tactical thought, taking no casualties, or else you fuck up at some point and half your squad is in medbay for a month.

2. This leads into the next point: ROTATE YOUR ACTIVE TROOPS. DON'T USE THE SAME TWO SQUADS FOR EVERY MISSION. SPREAD THE KILLS AROUND. If you get a couple months in and only a dozen or so troops are worth a damn, that's nearly GG right there. By the time you get to the end of summer, you're going to need at minimum three squads of 8 soldiers who can fight effectively against difficult opponents, plus some few dozen newbies to train up.

For example, in my current game I've got 32 troops at or above Corporal (3rd rank); 13 of those are at or above Tech Sergeant (5th rank) and can handle pretty much anything from a good position. And that's not nearly enough to be comfortable; I've had to wound high-ranked soldiers by taking them on back-to-back missions just to have enough bodies to fill the Skyranger. This is late August, BTW, and I still only have beam lasers, though I've finished the prelim techs for carapace armor and pulse lasers.

3. Early on, flashbang grenades are amazing. They stay effective against some foes later on, too. They're get-out-of-squad-wipe-free cards that make an AoE of enemies completely useless.

4. As far as classes go, Infantry are your core. Have lots of infantry. Shoot x2 or Shoot + reload in the same turn is amazing once you have SCOPES and laser rifles.
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8270 on: September 06, 2014, 02:39:23 pm »

How on earth can you possibly wipe even 4 sectoids in 1 turn? At least half of them will be in full cover giving you a 33% (maybe, probably less) chance to hit. Blast cover? Get closer?

Seems like every time I try and move in I get the second batch of aliens.

Neonivek

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8271 on: September 06, 2014, 04:11:07 pm »

How on earth can you possibly wipe even 4 sectoids in 1 turn? At least half of them will be in full cover giving you a 33% (maybe, probably less) chance to hit. Blast cover? Get closer?

Seems like every time I try and move in I get the second batch of aliens.

What part of the game are we talking about?
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Flying Dice

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8272 on: September 06, 2014, 06:09:05 pm »

How on earth can you possibly wipe even 4 sectoids in 1 turn? At least half of them will be in full cover giving you a 33% (maybe, probably less) chance to hit. Blast cover? Get closer?

Seems like every time I try and move in I get the second batch of aliens.
If you aren't advancing in such a way that you can't move the rest of your squad to flank them out (or if the terrain doesn't allow for it), you have several options.

1. HE grenades are your friend. Blow up their cover, shoot the buggers.

2. Pull your scout back, set up an overwatch trap.

Other than that, yes, you run the risk of activating a second pod. Which is one of the main reasons why in the first month or two (before you get SCOPES and lasers and soldiers with non-shit Aim) you have pretty much everyone carry HE and flashbang grenades. Destroying enemy cover and making enemies useless are always better alternatives to taking low percentage shots.

Basically, the goal is to take sufficient care so that every encounter is as optimal as possible for your squad. If it comes down to taking low percentage shots because you're out of grenades, can't safely flank, and don't have any space to set up an overwatch trap, your goal is to ensure that when that firefight happens, all of your troops are in good cover so that they stand a better chance in that dangerous situation.

Granted, the 'kill them all instantly' thing isn't a big deal for Sectoids. They're annoying buggers but not incredibly dangerous, and your troops are all terrible enough that one being hurt for a couple weeks isn't a big deal. Where this really comes into play is when you start seeing things like Chryssies, Mechtoids, &c., stuff that can just flat-out run up and murder half your squad if you don't kill it as soon as it appears.
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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8273 on: September 06, 2014, 08:47:30 pm »

I generally send my red shirt in with alien trophies. The second item is a laser sight if they have less than 65 accuracy. My favorite option after that is a flashbang. I also always send at least two medic kits.

Most of the time when the fire fight lights off the full cover options are limited to the point where half or less of the squad can see the aliens.

Flying Dice

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8274 on: September 06, 2014, 09:59:05 pm »

Again, that's one of the nice points about LW, half-cover is actually a viable option.

Hm. I might do up a one-mission LP to help walk through the sort of stuff I think is useful in firefights.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8275 on: September 06, 2014, 10:05:25 pm »

"Half cover: not even once" ~Beaglerush on cover in vanilla.

Although I will say, map allowing always put everyone in heavy cover.  If one soldier is in half cover, the whole squad might as well be because the aliens are all going to shoot the half cover guy.
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umiman

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8276 on: September 06, 2014, 11:31:42 pm »

Use hunker down. It turns half cover into full cover and makes you immune to crits. Also it messes with the alien AI to your benefit (unless they're packing grenades).

Flying Dice

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8277 on: September 06, 2014, 11:49:13 pm »

Is it just me, or for some reason is there always that one special sniper in every campaign? The one who makes every shot that you absolutely need to be made?
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NullForceOmega

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8278 on: September 07, 2014, 01:29:33 am »

I had one, several games ago, his last name was Norris, and by some miracle of RNG had red hair and a beard.  After he crushed three missions almost single-handedly he had his name changed to 'Chuck', and he lasted many, many missions, racking up well over 100 kills before he finally fell at the hands of three Muton Elites and an Ethereal.  Just like his namesakes reputation he was unrealistically badass, on one mission only one kill was not his, and that enemy fell to Zhang.
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Flying Dice

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Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown (New by Firaxis)
« Reply #8279 on: September 07, 2014, 01:51:19 am »

Is it just me, or for some reason is there always that one special sniper in every campaign? The one who makes every shot that you absolutely need to be made?
That was my previous sniper ;-;
RIP.

--

Okay, I said I might do it, and I had a UFO crash handy.

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