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[BFEL]

I'm..probably gonna uninstall LW. I haven't played XCOM since I got frustrated with it, and while I like it conceptually I'm just incapable of relaxing with that shit on there, and it takes all the fun out

[Mookzen]

So, is Long War now the definitive best variation of the game ?

[umiman]

Not really. It changes a lot of things and it's up to you whether you like it.

I like most of it except the morale thing. Uninstalled it because of the morale change.

I also don't think it's as hard as some people make it out to be but that's probably due to your experience with the game and whatnot.

[Flying Dice]

The difficulty depends on a couple different factors. If you play it like vanilla, it's going to be hard as nails. If you only play the first few months, it's going to feel much easier because of the altered difficulty curve. The air game is flat-out more difficult. My argument is that, given equivalent difficulty and no Second Wave options selected, LW is more difficult than vanilla across the board, except for the first 2-3 months.

I would posit that it's the definitive best overhaul mod. Personal preference as to whether LW or vanilla is better; I enjoy the former because once you get going it feels more like original X-com. Still pretty far off, but closer nonetheless.

[GlyphGryph]

Not really. It changes a lot of things and it's up to you whether you like it.

I like most of it except the morale thing. Uninstalled it because of the morale change.

Wait - what changes did they make to morale?

I love the changes they made to panic - being able to swoop in and liberate alien controlled countries is great.

Long War does have some problems, but they are primarily late game problems (things really, really start to drag after a certain point). They've also made some serious mistakes (nerfing gene mods into the ground) that I hope they fix but they might not. But overall, in the vast majorities of ways, it's a more enjoyable experience. At it's most basic, it has a large number of bugfixes and quality of life improvements over the base game, and the soldier classes (and how you get them) are just honestly way more fun.

[scriver]

Every time this thread pops back up I think they've announced a sequel or something and get excited, and then you guys just totally lets me down like this.

You make me

[Sonlirain]

Not really. It changes a lot of things and it's up to you whether you like it.

I like most of it except the morale thing. Uninstalled it because of the morale change.

Wait - what changes did they make to morale?

It's far easier for the aliens to cause a morale "tantrum spiral". Basically if one guy gets shot (just shot not even killed but getting someone killed is even worse) you have a fairly high chance of one or more of your soldiers browning their pants and becoming useless for 2 turns.
Basically one shot (even non lethal) landing on your troop can cause half of your squad to panic and run arund likely into overwatch fire or in the best scenario hunker down for 2 turns.

[umiman]

No no. Not that one. I didn't have a problem with that.

There was a pseudo bug where every single soldier started with -1hp. Combined with their morale system where they'd force you to use different soldiers each mission it would lead to soldiers taking something like 17 weeks to recover. Since there was no way to track who was "safe" to bring on missions, you had to manually track your entire platoon by hand. Not to mention because of that bug, everyone would take eons to recover anyway.

It was infuriating.

[Thexor]

Oh, I remember that. It was a bug in beta 12, IIRC. They released a hotfix for that problem less than a week later, but it wasn't well-publicized. They also didn't bother updating the core beta 12 download to include the hotfix, so anyone who downloaded beta 12 needed to get the hotfix separately.

Downloading beta 13 will fix it for certain.

[Flying Dice]

Yeah, that got fixed.

Not really. It changes a lot of things and it's up to you whether you like it.

I like most of it except the morale thing. Uninstalled it because of the morale change.

Wait - what changes did they make to morale?

It's far easier for the aliens to cause a morale "tantrum spiral". Basically if one guy gets shot (just shot not even killed but getting someone killed is even worse) you have a fairly high chance of one or more of your soldiers browning their pants and becoming useless for 2 turns.
Basically one shot (even non lethal) landing on your troop can cause half of your squad to panic and run arund likely into overwatch fire or in the best scenario hunker down for 2 turns.

That doesn't match with my own observations. I've had missions go south and watch half the team get wiped out in two turns without that sort of thing happening, never mind from someone getting shot. Actually, I've seen more of that in vanilla than in LW. That aside, panic is actually less harmful; your troopers tend to hunker or retreat->hunker instead of friendly-firing every fucking time.

[Thexor]

Also, don't forget about Alien Trophies, which grant immunity to 'panic spirals'. Holding a Trophy prevents panic caused by allies being injured/panicked.

And I'm pretty sure panic can no longer cause people to shoot at all in LW. It's a change that also makes inducing panic via psionics more useful - no longer will you panic a Muton, only for them to turn around and murder your psyker.

[EnigmaticHat]

When it comes to panic LW is far less punishing than vanilla.

I've had so many I/I games end in a single shot when a sectoid one-shots someone out of full cover and two other soldiers panic.  Then next turn someone dies and from there the run is pretty much over.

The thing about vanilla Xcom is that the first 2 months are actually really unfair in the alien's favor, you just don't notice because you can kill every enemy at will using grenades.  LW takes away that advantage with its grenade nerfs (or at least it did last time I played) but the first few months are way nicer in most other respects.  6-8 soldiers + alien trophies/two items/smoke grenades on anyone + choosing classes means after the first mission you rapidly start to have a lot more control over how the game plays out.  It also makes sectoids' weapons FAR less effective against cover, so no more getting critted after hunkering down in full cover because the first shot blew up said cover.

[Sonlirain]

long war generally nerfed alien accuracy (thinmen are no longerhave an apparennt 75% to hit 100% crit against soldiers in half cover) AND increased the value of cover making the shootouts far less... lethal for your soldiers along wiht making flanking even more important.

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, that not often mentioned boost in defense for half cover (and the fact that it provides damage reduction) both, I think, are straight up improvements to the game that offer more tactical variety and actually make half cover worth seeking out for more than a reduce crit chance. Someone hunkered down in half cover actually has a better defensive position than someone attacking from full.

[Scoops Novel]

What would this be like if it was real time with pause?