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[Shujaa]

Some dwarf merchants arrived in my first year, came down some ramps into my fort and traded at the depot. Got the announcement that they are embarking on their journey, but they won't move from their spot.

Save file: .rar archive

[Nekojin]

I've been having this problem, and I'm working on analyzing what might be causing it.

I've got a current save file where every caravan stays and goes crazy. When it started, I only had a direct connection to one face of the map edges, and only a very small portion of it. I guessed that they wanted to leave via a different map edge than the one they came in on. That was disproven when I carved stairs down and up to other exit areas, which still resulted in stuck caravans.

Someone else suggested that they want to leave on the same z-axis they arrived on, but not the face they came in on. This was disproven by my girlfriend's game, where her Depot is ~13 levels below where the caravan came in, and the caravan left on the same map level where the trade depot is.

Now, I'm theorizing that they want to leave on the same z-axis as where the trade depot is located. On my current map, this isn't possible, which would result in a stuck caravan. I haven't had a chance to test this yet - can anyone else disprove this theory?

[Nekojin]

I'm pretty sure now that what I mentioned earlier is correct - that Merchants want to try to leave on the same Z-level as the Trade Depot. I don't know what would happen if there were no valid positions in the entire map that qualified, but in the situation I've got, it turns out that there are some map edges that are on the same Z-level... but they're inaccessible.

In my game, I built an underground Trade Depot at the same Z-level as the map edge where they entered, and they were able to leave just fine. In a friend's game using the same save, he tunneled all the way through to the inaccessible edge, and that worked.

So, there's something wrong with Caravans (and Liaisons?) attempting to leave via an inaccessible exit square, resulting in them hanging out around the Depot.

[ErrorJustin]

I had the same problem with the liason. YES the dwarf meeting with him had no other jobs turned on. They went through all the bits of convo, and I even got the message that he had "departed," complete with the "build a road" message.

But he just... didn't leave. Eventually went crazy and killed two of my dwarves (who would have guessed he'd be so strong?)

I know the liason problem has been reported a lot, but it's frustrating that everyone on these boards seems to assume you're doing something wrong with YOUR noble, and the meeting just isn't taking place, or completing. In my case that absolutely isn't the case - the liason just won't leave.

[heathkit]

I think the guys at Ars have worked out the bug: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/39309975/m/191008958831/p/2

Basically, when a foreigner decides to leave, they look for an exit from the map, but only on their current Z-level.  If there's no exit from the map on the level the foreigner is currently on, they just sit there and eventually go crazy.

So, either by digging tunnels or a pit, make sure your trade depot is on the same Z-level the caravan arrives on.  Unfortunately, the liason will follow your leader anywhere, so you can't necessarily control where he conducts the meeting

[Nekojin]

quote:Originally posted by heathkit:
<STRONG>I think the guys at Ars have worked out the bug:</STRONG>

*wave* Hi, that's me that you're linking there. =^_^=

The post that I made above in this thread is more recent than my post on Ars. It's a little more in-depth on the matter than I'd had a chance to look at when I posted there.

[apache1990]

I don't know why, but I've never had a problem with the liaison leaving my broker's office 5 levels underground.

Maybe I'm just lucky?

[Nekojin]

quote:Originally posted by apache1990:
<STRONG>I don't know why, but I've never had a problem with the liaison leaving my broker's office 5 levels underground.

Maybe I'm just lucky?</STRONG>

I still haven't figured out why the Liaison sometimes has trouble leaving, but I suspect that it's somehow related to the Caravan problem.

[Xeriar]

My liaison left just fine... dwarf merchants and their camels went nuts, however.

[hactar1]

The z-level problem might still exist, but I can say that it's probably not causing the merchants to stay in the depot.  I have the same problem, and my depot is within an easy shot to a map edge on the same level.

(edit) ...and now they all left.  I think chopping some trees helped.  The (D)epot accessibility view should show you where the 3-wide paths are.

[ November 19, 2007: Message edited by: hactar1 ]

[axus]

Merchants usually come in at a higher Z-level on my map, and leave to the southern edge on the same Z-level.   My liason meets a Z-level below that, and hasn't had trouble leaving in this version or the last.

[Nekojin]

quote:Originally posted by hactar1:
<STRONG>The z-level problem might still exist, but I can say that it's probably not causing the merchants to stay in the depot.  I have the same problem, and my depot is within an easy shot to a map edge on the same level.

(edit) ...and now they all left.  I think chopping some trees helped.  The (D)epot accessibility view should show you where the 3-wide paths are.</STRONG>

So you're saying that the same-level exit was inaccessible to the Wagons until you chopped some trees to make a path, and then they left?

[Sean Mirrsen]

The liaison has had no problem leaving after a meeting 2 levels below ground, on a flat map with absolutely no other exits on other levels. The reason is probably ramps. I had liaisons get stuck with stairs, but they get through ramps just fine. I'll have to test if they see constructed ramps, too. Then it will be just a matter of keeping a backup "rampy" exit route for the liaison to go through.

[Nekojin]

The fact that some people are reporting the Liaison going crazy while the caravans leave on schedule, while some have the Caravans stay while the Liaison leaves, leads me to believe that there are two separate, but possibly related, problems here.

[MJ working]

I can add in version 33b.

That I built a trade depot at z-3 using ramps. I carved and built on it until the Shift+D screen showed green at least 3 wide all over on the top level, the ramps and corridors showed "W" 3 wide all the way across to the Depot which showed "D" accessable in all of the tiles.

The Trade Liason came and left "ok." after meeting with the leader.

But the dwarf caravan (with two musk-ox) would not leave despite saying they would leave. The musk ox went enraged and killed several of my dogs, and one merchant was killed (I think by his ox.) The other merchant was listed as "running around babbling" until sometime this next spring when he now shows up dead.  The two axedwarves are still hanging around "friendly" even this next spring. Then the elven caravan visited this spring, and they refused to leave too. One donkey has been slain and one elf is dead. (So far.)

Points that I should note, may or may not be related.

It seemed to me that both caravans got to the depot VERY quickly both times. Yes I have paths in the trees cleared, yes I'm running about 60-70 fps and no, I'm not 100% paying attention to them at every second (some times I have to hide the window and do something else.) But still, after the announcement they have arrived, and the pace they navigate the ground level at , to get to the middle of the map and down my ramps to z-3, I think they teleported. (Even though they did not have to as the path showed accessable.)

Also I seemed to have a hard time getting my broker to the Depot these times. It showed it was accessable to him (and he kept taking goods to it) But even if I turned off all his duties and used the "r" call trader to depot he would not go. Both times I had to turn on "any one can trade" to get to be able to trade. The 2nd time I know it was the broker who showed to trade, the 1st I can't recall who it was.

I am not modding anything in the file. I have weather and temperatures turned off. No sound, no intro movie. Running in windowed at 600by 300 (default.)
Windows Xp operating matchine. I do not know the specs.