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[DrunkGamer]

Hello!

I'm a Lua coder (mostly because it's the first and only thing I learnt so far) and I have been playing around with Love2D to make a basic Roguelike.

Love2D is great, but I feel like it's not really the best for a game like this... I wish to know if any of you (Which is probably everyone) haves any recomendations for another different language for me to learn or maybe something that uses lua so I can start making something.

Bear with my stupidity, please, as I'm still pretty much new.

[Orange Wizard]

For my projects I'm using Python with libtcod, which is a roguelike library with lots of useful tools like pathfinding and Perlin noise.
If you don't care about the other stuff you could use PDCurses for just the ASCII stuff. Pygame (or other 2D library, but pygame is the best) would be great if you want more functionality (at the expense of time/effort/learning).

Obviously if you don't want to use Python then that's all irrelevant. I still recommend learning Python though.

[DrunkGamer]

For my projects I'm using Python with libtcod, which is a roguelike library with lots of useful tools like pathfinding and Perlin noise.
If you don't care about the other stuff you could use PDCurses for just the ASCII stuff. Pygame (or other 2D library, but pygame is the best) would be great if you want more functionality (at the expense of time/effort/learning).

Obviously if you don't want to use Python then that's all irrelevant. I still recommend learning Python though.

I'm not really well versed on Python, so I might be awful wrong, but I heard it's way more resources consuming than any other language? I'll still look into it anyways.

I never managed to get libtcod working, but I guess I can try to make something semi-from scratch with it.

Thanks!

[Orange Wizard]

I'm not really well versed on Python, so I might be awful wrong, but I heard it's way more resources consuming than any other language? I'll still look into it anyways.

It's not that bad. Interpreted languages basically always use more memory and run slightly slower than compiled ones. You probably won't even notice on modern hardware unless you're planning something very resource intensive.

[breadman]

I'm not really well versed on Python, so I might be awful wrong, but I heard it's way more resources consuming than any other language? I'll still look into it anyways.

I never managed to get libtcod working, but I guess I can try to make something semi-from scratch with it.
[/quote]
More?   Usually, if you're comparing it to a compiled language.  Way more?  Not enough to outweigh the ease of development.  Any other language?  Not hardly; plenty of languages are far more resource-consuming than Python.

I used libtcod for a PyWeek entry, but ended up writing my own maze generator and line-of-sight algorithm for it.  I had initially planned a roguelike, before realizing that a week is not nearly enough time for the plans I had, particularly around a full-time job.

Sometime I should port that program to something easier for the layperson to run.  Perhaps something like Putnam's tile maze.

[DrunkGamer]

Hmh, I got some extremely basic Python knowledge, but I guess I'll start with some basic things first. Thanks for the replies!

[EnigmaticHat]

I'm not really well versed on Python, so I might be awful wrong, but I heard it's way more resources consuming than any other language? I'll still look into it anyways.

It's not that bad. Interpreted languages basically always use more memory and run slightly slower than compiled ones. You probably won't even notice on modern hardware unless you're planning something very resource intensive.

Python runs SIGNIFICANTLY slower than other languages.  The figure I've heard is 4x faster to write, 10x slower to run.  But for a RL Python is pretty perfect; 10x basically instant is still basically instant.  You also have the option of using Cython if speed becomes a problem.

[Putnam]

I was about to give an example of Python's speed (Civ IV), but I realized one example doesn't really say anything. Sonic '06 uses Lua for basically everything and is slow as hell in a lot of places, but so does Metal Gear Solid V and that game is one of the most technically impressive I've ever seen.

In general, actually, I'd say Lua's a damn good language to learn. It's (fairly recently) become just about the most popular scripting language around. Memory hacking (DFHack, Bizhawk, Cheat Engine)? Lua. Game scripting (Civilization V, MGSV, Binding of Isaac: Rebirth given next version, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Angry Birds, L.A. Noire, Garry's Mod, WoW, Dota 2, holy shit there's a lot)? Lua. If you're into games, yeah, Lua's very good.

[DrunkGamer]

I was about to give an example of Python's speed (Civ IV), but I realized one example doesn't really say anything. Sonic '06 uses Lua for basically everything and is slow as hell in a lot of places, but so does Metal Gear Solid V and that game is one of the most technically impressive I've ever seen.

In general, actually, I'd say Lua's a damn good language to learn. It's (fairly recently) become just about the most popular scripting language around. Memory hacking (DFHack, Bizhawk, Cheat Engine)? Lua. Game scripting (Civilization V, MGSV, Binding of Isaac: Rebirth given next version, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Angry Birds, L.A. Noire, Garry's Mod, WoW, Dota 2, holy shit there's a lot)? Lua. If you're into games, yeah, Lua's very good.

So basically stick with Lua? Even for Roguelikes?

[Putnam]

I didn't say that, I just said it's good to learn. I wouldn't stick with a language at all. I've had successful, released projects in Python, Lua and Javascript, working-as-intended-but-unreleased projects in C++ and C# and contributed to some Ruby stuff. Most of those are pretty C-like languages anyway. The only language of those I'd actually say I'm fluent in is Lua.

[breadman]

I didn't say that, I just said it's good to learn. I wouldn't stick with a language at all. I've had successful, released projects in Python, Lua and Javascript, working-as-intended-but-unreleased projects in C++ and C# and contributed to some Ruby stuff. Most of those are pretty C-like languages anyway. The only language of those I'd actually say I'm fluent in is Lua.

Indeed, use the right tool for the job.  If Love2D works for you, great!  If it's not working as well as you'd like, feel free to try something else.  Fortunately, the more languages you've learned, the easier it is to pick up a new one.  I've used between forty and fifty, though I only a handful on a regular basis.  In general, the libraries available matter almost as much as the language itself.  (Almost; CPAN isn't enough to get me back into Perl for more than simple text processing.  And that's after having used it for a day job.)  The environment can matter even more, as evidenced by Javascript.

[itisnotlogical]

Suppose I were to write a 2D array of bools (it's meant to represent a tilemap but there's only solid/non-solid blocks). Should I write each individual coordinate into the file and then read them back, or should I write them in-order and read them back in a one-dimensional way? I wish Game Maker could serialize objects like Unity, or even had a concept of "objects" more complex than it does. Sometimes Game Maker's narrow focus can be a bit limiting...

[Reelya]

You can do it either way, and the relative value depends on relative number of filled blocks vs empty blocks. It also depends on how big your 2D array is. If it's over 256 wide/long that basically doubles the data needed to store the "coordinates" version (2 bytes per x/y rather than 1 byte per x/y).

Let's assume that you have x = 256, and y = 256, which is the biggest map you can have and still use 1 byte coordinates. writing each cell into the file as 1 byte, you'd have a 65536 byte file. On the other hand, if you write coordinates of only the "solid" tiles, you'd have a 2 x "solid" bytes file. So, if less than half your tiles were solid, this would save memory. Obviously, if you want maps that are over 256x256 then you need 2 bytes per x and y, so 4 bytes per tile, and the 2D array version becomes more cost-effective in comparison.

Optimizations:
- 2D array version: use bits rather than bytes, this reduces the 2D array version by a factor of 8.
- Coordinates version: store "blocks" e.g. x1,y1,x2,y2 and draw chunks of the map at once, rather than individual tiles

Another consideration if that if you stick to the "1 byte per tile" storage, than later you can extend the system to support different tile graphics. leave the lowest 1 bit as wall/floor and use the remaining bits to indicate which tile to use.

[jaked122]

I'd write  a format like

Code: [Select]

<width> <height>
<bools serialized to integers>

However, I suspect that Gamemaker won't work for that(and so much more)... But if you can't serialize arrays of bools like that, then I'd recommend looking at the netppm format as a starting point, as it is human readable and most languages with decent IO are able to read it without too much trouble.

That being said, I'd recommend moving away from gamemaker if at all possible. That's my preference though, and I honestly have no idea how much it has changed since I dabbled in it six or so years ago.

[itisnotlogical]

I like Game Maker. Like any tool, it has strengths and weaknesses. I quite enjoy that you can reference any resource by just typing its name in your code, as opposed to passing references and typing a million getComponent() lines as in Unity. But then, as is my problem now, Game Maker has rather limited file IO capabilities.