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[Putnam]

Until Windows ships with Python in the far off year of Never AD, it will always be a problem because it prevents anyone from using your software unless they download Python. That's what executables are for, delivering the experience to everyone on the OS.

http://www.pyinstaller.org/

[Orange Wizard]

http://portablepython.com/
This too.

Granted, including the interpreter makes file size a lot bigger, but that's also becoming much less of a problem as things go on.

...

Relevant to GUNIN, Python books often use "module" and "function" interchangeably. I've no idea why that is.

[Mephisto]

People already have to install .Net runtimes, JRE, and others. Why do people treat Python differently? The size would be irrelevant if you had to statically link your runtime of choice anyway.

[alexandertnt]

People already have to install .Net runtimes, JRE, and others. Why do people treat Python differently?

The problem is people generally don't have to install .NET and JRE, but do Python.

.NET runtimes are preinstalled with Windows. I'm pretty sure they are updated with Windows Update too, so it's pretty much all handled automagically for the end user. Java often comes preinstalled on the OEM installations of Windows that come with computers.

For some software, some people who see instructions beyond "download, doubleclick" will just skip your software entirely. This is particularly true with games, due to the sheer ammount of competition, and the growing ability to run games in the browser without even the "download, doubleclick" step.

[Squeegy]

Until Windows ships with Python in the far off year of Never AD, it will always be a problem because it prevents anyone from using your software unless they download Python. That's what executables are for, delivering the experience to everyone on the OS.

http://www.pyinstaller.org/

It's what I've been using for years to distribute my Python scripts to Windows users. Do you know how pyinstaller works? It packages the entirety of the Python language into an executable (or multiple files, depending on your preferences), and sets it to run your script when it loads. It's quite accurate that they called it pyinstaller because it literally just installs Python for you. The fact that a hack like pyinstaller exists, blessed though its divine creators may be, does not change the fact that Python is fundamentally a scripting language not meant to be compiled. Python did not come with pyinstaller. Python was not meant for pyinstaller. People had to go out and make that for it.

Python users are just fortunate that their executable support is considerably better than Ruby's.

People already have to install .Net runtimes, JRE, and others. Why do people treat Python differently?

The problem is people generally don't have to install .NET and JRE, but do Python.

.NET runtimes are preinstalled with Windows. I'm pretty sure they are updated with Windows Update too, so it's pretty much all handled automagically for the end user. Java often comes preinstalled on the OEM installations of Windows that come with computers.

For some software, some people who see instructions beyond "download, doubleclick" will just skip your software entirely. This is particularly true with games, due to the sheer ammount of competition, and the growing ability to run games in the browser without even the "download, doubleclick" step.

Java is one of the fundamentals of the Internet, like Flash, and there are very few people who are capable of running it that don't have it downloaded. Python is very far from ubiquitous; I would go so far as to say it's rather esoteric.

[Orange Wizard]

I'm confused. What's your point, Squeegy?

We know it's a scripting language. It seems like you're angry for no reason now.

[Parsely]

Relevant to GUNIN, Python books often use "module" and "function" interchangeably. I've no idea why that is.

Ye, prolly the cause of the confusion up there, since the OO book I have does everything from Python.

[da_nang]

Java's typing is admittedly weird. You can't compare two strings together because it will just look at the fact that they are both strings and declare them equal. You have to do "string1.equals(string2)".

I'm pretty sure it's because they're objects and as such the == operator compares the reference address.

[Squeegy]

That is correct, but it doesn't change that it is annoying.

[Thief^]

C# specifically makes an exception for strings to avoid this issue. They are technically a reference type under the hood (so copying a string incurs no overhead), but act like a value type for most operations, including comparison (so "hello" == "world" correctly returns false).

This is probably the best way to do it.

In C++, you should avoid using char* (aka C) strings if possible, and use std::string or other wrapper. As of C++14, you can even write "hello"s to create an std::string literal

[Sergius]

C# specifically makes an exception for strings to avoid this issue. They are technically a reference type under the hood (so copying a string incurs no overhead), but act like a value type for most operations, including comparison (so "hello" == "world" correctly returns false).

This is probably the best way to do it.

In C++, you should avoid using char* (aka C) strings if possible, and use std::string or other wrapper. As of C++14, you can even write "hello"s to create an std::string literal

I think it's not so much an exception but rather that you can overload operators in C++ / C#. So, what "==" means is entirely up to whoever made the class.

Apparently this is not allowed in Java by design, for some explanation about being confusing to people without the proper context (the class files). Java's "overloaded operators" are not modifiable.

[Thief^]

The rule for languages that allow operator overloading is "the rule of least surprise". That is, overloaded operators should behave as a user would expect them to behave. For example a complex number class is expected to overload +, -, *, ==, etc, and have them perform addition, subtraction, multiplication, equality testing, etc.

C++'s stealing of the bit-shift operators for data streams is a bit dodgy under that rule.

[Sergius]

Well I'd call that rule a Best Practice rather than a rule since there's no way to enforce them.

Cowboy programmers don't care about them rules!

[Putnam]

I can make == be an addition operator! I do what I want!

[EnigmaticHat]

You're a loose cannon Putman but a damn good programmer.