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[Virex]

Erm, learning a language isn't a zero-sum game. If you only know C#, your options are limited, but if you know multiple languages, among which C#, you're better off than if you know those same languages save for C#, as there are still enough companies and even open source projects that use C#. Besides, if your code is only supposed to work on Windows computers (because it's internal or business software for a company/customers that use windows) then it would make little sense to discard C# just because it only works on windows. A similar argument goes for objective C. If you want a cross-platform application that's a bad idea, but if you're targeting the IPhone?

[GlyphGryph]

I'm sorry, I'm just bitter because I can;'t use any of the pokemon hacking tools because they are all built in C#. Bastards.

I'd rather people not learn C# not for their own benefit, but for the benefit of others. If they don't have it in their toolkit, then they won't be tempted to use it.

[Nadaka]

I would like to come out as strongly as humanly possible against deciding to learn C# (or Objective C for that matter). Please, don't become Microsoft's bitch. There are plenty of languages out there that don't tie you in to a single vendor and guarantee your code will only ever work on Windows systems.

Every time you learn a new language, you make learning the next one that much easier. C# is one among the many languages in my arsenal. C# isn't a bad language, its not like it is VB. And there are many jobs available for it. I currently use C# as the back end on my web app because my cheap web host doesn't do java and i was annoyed by php at the time. That c# recursive descent parser I posted? It is >95% identical to the same program in java.

[alway]

Learn C#. It has some of the best online documentation of any language in the form of MSDN, is pretty easy to pick up, and has a huge number of jobs utilizing it. Heavy lifting is done with C++, but when you need something relatively fast and easy to throw together, C# is a good choice.

[GlyphGryph]

Screw all y'all.

[Willfor]

I exclusively use .NET languages. Maybe it's my own internal trolling of anyone who would dare use any other platform than windows?

Or, maybe if we're being realistic and want the true answer it's because the IDE is manna from the heavens. I've never found another IDE that so perfectly suits me. And as soon as someone makes an IDE as great as Visual Studio for a crossplatform language, I might actually consider using another language.

(C++ doesn't count. I dislike writing in C++ so much. :3)

[GlyphGryph]

Man, see, I've never understood that. I tried that .NET stuff and the IDE was just blaaaaah.

But then, I do all my development in vim. I'm clearly a weirdo.

[Nadaka]

I exclusively use .NET languages. Maybe it's my own internal trolling of anyone who would dare use any other platform than windows?

Or, maybe if we're being realistic and want the true answer it's because the IDE is manna from the heavens. I've never found another IDE that so perfectly suits me. And as soon as someone makes an IDE as great as Visual Studio for a crossplatform language, I might actually consider using another language.

(C++ doesn't count. I dislike writing in C++ so much. :3)

There are a lot of things I prefer about eclipse over visual studio. For instance, the keyboard shortcuts are listed alongside menu and contextual menu options. Unlike visual studio, where you have to look up and memorize keyboard shortcuts from outside instead of learning them naturally.

[Willfor]

I'm also exclusively a hobbyist. If I were a professional then the efficiency of key commands would be something I would be concerned about. As it stands, I don't use key commands other than ctrl-c, v, z, or h in any way.

[Nadaka]

Eclipse also works better in multi-monitor environments because you can detach any view and split the display area however you want. For instance you can do side by side code comparisons between different documents, or even different parts of the same document. It also has access to some of the most powerful build, test and deployment tools right out of the box and is nearly infinitely extensible.

The only place where visual studio really surpasses eclipse as an IDE is its intellisense.

Edit: and I suppose the WYSIWYG GUI building aspects of visual studio have not been matched by any plugin for eclipse... yet.

[MorleyDev]

I would like to come out as strongly as humanly possible against deciding to learn C# (or Objective C for that matter). Please, don't become Microsoft's bitch. There are plenty of languages out there that don't tie you in to a single vendor and guarantee your code will only ever work on Windows systems.

Mono? I mean, C++ still needs recompilation and changes to get it across platforms, and Linux and the JRE seem to either get along reasonably well or desire to kill each other as violently as possible and you still occasionally have to use libraries that go through the JNI which means platform locking and recompilations and yeeeah...

[Stargrasper]

Man, see, I've never understood that. I tried that .NET stuff and the IDE was just blaaaaah.

But then, I do all my development in vim. I'm clearly a weirdo.

Only as weird as half the linux world.  Really nice that I can ssh into a server and use vi to code.

I can't seem to find an IDE that I really like for anything but Java.  I traditionally code everything that isn't Java in gedit, vi, notepad++.  I've tried a number of others but don't particularly like them.

I'm not particularly against .NET, but since I normally use linux, I end up not using .NET often...  Linux just favors programming so much more than Windows or OSX.

So I thought I'd poke my head in here and see what....SWEET JESUS IN THE MICROWAVE, 64 pages in less than a month?? What are you people doing in here? 


So. My experience: numerous years of Apple BASIC and Commodore BASIC; LOGO; very limited C+ experience.

I understand procedural programming, no problem. Loops, conditional statements, subroutines, all that shit. Bit harder time wrapping my brain around object-oriented programming, but I sorta get the gist. I think my work playing around with modding DF helps there, because the way the game handles critters in the raws is sort of OOP.

Any tips on what I should try to learn? Or even IF I should bother to learn. I have no interest in programming as a career, it would be mostly for putzing around and trying to hack up my own small games or tool apps to make "bridges" where I have two other apps that I want to pass data to each other.

We're geeks.  That's why we're here.

I always suggest Java and you could just expand on your C++.  But from the sound of things, you want to learn Perl or Python.

[GlyphGryph]

C++, its mostly about avoiding platform-specific libraries. Usually, it takes some work to port it but its possible. And even when the code isn't compiled for linux, you can fake it with wine pretty well.

I've never had any real trouble with Java either.

C# is a whole 'nother beast, and Mono is a joke. I've never, ever gotten anything to run with it.

I always suggest Java and you could just expand on your C++.  But from the sound of things, you want to learn Perl or Python.

Or Ruby!

[MorleyDev]

Java problems tend to occur more when you try and do something relatively complex, like multithreading and using the concurrent library. I have yet to figure out how to make Java use more than one core, and every test I've done makes it seem like the standard JRE cannot actually use more than one core 0_o

I agree the windows-specificness of most C# is a problem, since I regard C# as a superior language to Java from a language design point of view.

[Stargrasper]

Java problems tend to occur more when you try and do something relatively complex, like multithreading and using the concurrent library. I have yet to figure out how to make Java use more than one core, and every test I've done makes it seem like the standard JRE cannot actually use more than one core 0_o

I agree the windows-specificness of most C# is a problem, since I regard C# as a superior language to Java from a language design point of view.

Yeah, at my level, I'm trying to make Java do a ton of things it may or may not be able to do.  As far as I know, Java can use multiple cores.  I haven't threaded anything in awhile, but I seem to remember the cores using both of my cores.  I'll try it tonight sometime.  What's giving you a problem?