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[malloc]

The statistic is actually from a government run site, where all university educations are written. There is statistics on all educations. I can link you the statistic, but it's written in Danish.

@Levi
I understand, but still, vector math is really not that hard, as the basics are quite similar to ordinary arithmetic.
If you want a relatively good introduction I can suggest reading the first two parts of this: http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/07/linear-algebra-for-game-developers-part-1/

It gives a basic overview and introduction to vectors and vector arithmetic, which can be very useful for simple game programming.

[Virex]

According to the education ministries statistics there is between 97%-98% employment rate of newly educated CS's four month after finishing the education.

Unless they are being employed as computer scientists. Which I doubt, overall.

Also, where did you get those numbers? Remember that most colleges, when giving you employment numbers, include the folks working McDonalds flipping burgers in their totals. And since you don't include a time limit... 98% is actually kind of low, since it means 2 out of every 100 students is completely unemployable for the rest of their lives after obtaining a comp sci degree.

*emphasis mine*

[GlyphGryph]

Can you just explain the context of the statistics then? I mean, I voiced my specific concerns about the numbers in the last post.

Basically, how many of those are actually getting jobs as computer scientists, and how many are getting jobs in IT/coding, and how many are getting completely unrelated jobs?

(Sorry about missing the time bit, that's something at least)

[Levi]

@Levi
I understand, but still, vector math is really not that hard, as the basics are quite similar to ordinary arithmetic.
If you want a relatively good introduction I can suggest reading the first two parts of this: http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/07/linear-algebra-for-game-developers-part-1/

It gives a basic overview and introduction to vectors and vector arithmetic, which can be very useful for simple game programming.

Thanks, I'll give it a read. 

[malloc]

Can you just explain the context of the statistics then? I mean, I voiced my specific concerns about the numbers in the last post.

Basically, how many of those are actually getting jobs as computer scientists, and how many are getting jobs in IT/coding, and how many are getting completely unrelated jobs?

(Sorry about missing the time bit, that's something at least)

http://www.ug.dk/media/sync/beskaeftigelsestal2009/oversigt_udd_bachelornaturvidenskabmatfyskemidatalogi.html

Okay, the first four rows are the percentages based on university. The first two columns are the percentages who are employed, and the second two are just specified as "other". For all I know, that could mean they fell I'll, or they went traveling.
The last row is average percentages.

Also, I might have misinterpreted the statistics a bit, as they do say 4 to 19 months. But still, since not everyone goes seeking for work after finishing his or hers educated, I think it averages out. The statistic does not really say anything what they are actually working with, but according to the university, attendance on CS courses are so low, that they even accept people not have the course requirements. Also, the education is considered notoriously hard, so very few actually want to take it, further rising demand for computer scientists.

[GlyphGryph]

But, see, I can easily believe there are lots of jobs out there looking for computer science degrees that are not computer science. Simply because, as you put it, it has a reputation for being "hard".

None of what you've described is evidence of their being a significant computer science field though, just that computer science graduates have a decent (but not all that much higher than a generic STEM degree) of getting a job.

Again, if you want to demonstrate demands for computer scientists rather, than, say, code monkeys with computer science degrees (because its an easy place to grab people who might be willing to be halfway decent code-monkeys), your numbers don't bear that out.

Also, I think I should make clear - at least in the US, we generally don't consider people with computer science degrees to be computer scientists, similar to how those with engineering degrees or psychology undergrad degrees are not necessarily engineers or psychologists. Being a computer scientist requires one to actually engage in computer science. I was simply wondering how many computer scientists there are actually working in your country, and what the demand is for actual computer science jobs.\

Because if all it guarantees you is "a job, any job" within a freakin' year and a half? That's not much of promise, and sounds more like a waste of money for four years time. I'm pretty sure I can manage to find "a" job given 5 and a half years no matter where I go, and without having to pay for Uni.

[malloc]

The general census is that it is especially computer scientists there is a demand for. There is a danish technical news site I read, where they fairly often report how there is a growing demand for specifically computer scientists with a higher education.

I honestly don't know the real state of the situation, because, as I already pointed out, I am still just a student.

I also finally understood what you mean. I don't actually know how the situation looks in regards for demand for actual computer science on the job. Other than the fact that it's really easy to get a nicely paying job with a computer science degree, and the fact that one is sure to be developing software. The rest I suppose is up to the individual. If you're good at the computer sciencey parts, you will probably eventual land somewhere where you are going to be developing effective algorithms.

I should probably add to your edit that education is free in Denmark, and you actually get financial founding while being educated. So yes, it does make education a bit more mandatory if you want to get anywhere.

[Max White]

I wish education was still free here, we need to depend on the HECS scheme. Not so bad, I guess...

[GlyphGryph]

It's still might expensive, even if the government pays your way. That's four years of your life your giving up, after all. Opportunity costs, at the very least, are rather high.

And I'm still of the opinion those four years will be a lot more valuable to you if you actually do some programming work FIRST.

[Siquo]

Well, in malloc's defense, it's not fun to hear that your entire study and all your work for years has been in vain.

Really, it's the person that makes the programmer, and I've seen good ones straight from a CS/AI background, but "we working class" have had our share of people straight from CS school with big mouths, big expectations, and little to no marketable skills, so that explains our... insistence on the relative worth of your studies.

[GlyphGryph]

Best part about CS Degree is meeting lots fo other programmers/students/professors with different programming styles and views, who you can learn a lot from and network with later.

Jumping right into and staying in the corporate world (or, even more so, developing by yourself) is a bit more insular experience wise.

But I firmly believe the value you gain from the above increases if you've already got experience. For those who programmed all throughout high school, yeah, head right to Uni, you'll probably make good use of the experience. But if you've never programmed before, you might want to consider learning and working with programming first before getting a degree in it, is all I'm saying. You definitely don't need it to get a job, anywhere, because the best thing about programming is that you can literally build your own resume, and failing that, build yourself a job.

[Max White]

Well yea, that is the best bit of the IT industry...
So, what experience do you have?
Well I programmed X, and I have it right here. It was programmed in Y using Z, as your job advertisement said would be needed.

[Gatleos]

No better way to build confidence in your in-progress CS degree than to read a series of posts alternating between calling it invaluable and useless.

[Siquo]

Because it can be both, depending on the person studying it

[Max White]

No better way to build confidence in your in-progress CS degree than to read a series of posts alternating between calling it invaluable and useless.

It is totally and utterly useless unless you use it, and then it becomes invaluable.