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[Scoops Novel]

As far as you can tell, what is the average American's perception of what is currently going on, politically and otherwise?  A problem with threads like this is that you're too often exposed merely to extremes. If you're not basing it on reliable statistical support please say so.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Boehner got his re-election (how shocking), but the reports I'm hearing suggest that he had a lot more opposition than expected. The GOP Civil War continues.

[Grek]

lol, platinum coin.

Yes, let's make a coin that the government says is worth 1 trillion/4 trillion/16 trillion dollars and pay off the debt with it. It's not like that could cause the (already tenuous) US dollar to collapse or anything.

The sad thing is that there are serious economists seriously advocating that, too.

The idea isn't that you hand out these platinum coins as money. They never leave the Fed building. What actually happens is the Fed accepts the coins and, because on paper they now have 4 trillion in extra money, they're allowed to pay out on treasury bonds with regular US dollars without violating the Budget Control Act. You know, the one that establishes the debt ceiling and forbids the Fed from paying off the debt that the US owes. Once Congress gets their shit together and approves a budget/raises the debt ceiling/stops acting like idiots, Obama orders the treasury to melt down the platinum coins and takes that fictional money back out of the economy.

It's just a stupid accounting trick to bypass the dubiously constitutional provisions of the Budget Control Act without having to get the Supreme Court to strike the act down.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Final count is 220 votes for Boehner, 192 votes for Pelosi, and 15 votes for various others.

[Helgoland]

filthy commie leftist Marxist dirty liberal hippie

Have you perchance noticed the "Describe the user above you" thread? C'mon, get in theeeere...

Also, HOORAY INFLATION! As long as wages go up accordingly, it's nothing else than a flat tax on "cash" (i.e. stuff with a fixed nominal value) - and because only people  who can afford to lose some wealth have that sort of stuff, it'll make for a great tool to get investments flowing again while on the other hand circumventing the republican opposition to raising taxes!

[GreatJustice]

filthy commie leftist Marxist dirty liberal hippie

Have you perchance noticed the "Describe the user above you" thread? C'mon, get in theeeere...

Also, HOORAY INFLATION! As long as wages go up accordingly, it's nothing else than a flat tax on "cash" (i.e. stuff with a fixed nominal value) - and because only people  who can afford to lose some wealth have that sort of stuff, it'll make for a great tool to get investments flowing again while on the other hand circumventing the republican opposition to raising taxes!

It's a not-so-flat tax on anyone who earns a wage, because wages most certainly don't rise with the same speed as inflation. Great for the people who get it first, like the bankers and the government, bad for anyone who gets it later like a regular worker, very bad for anyone saving their money for whatever reason, and exceptionally bad for anyone on, say, a pension.

[mainiac]

Obama seems to be thinking that if republicans let the sequester go through without more tax hikes then everyone will blame the republicans because they gave nothing away.  Obama will make offer after offer, the republicans will shoot the offers down and in the end it's the meanie republicans that everyone will (correctly blame).

My thinking is big fucking deal.  The republicans dont care that people will blame them, they have already hit rock bottom in the blame department.  But by letting the sequester go through in two months they can tank the economy and win the 2014 midterms.

How does Obama not understand at this point that he is dealing with nihilistic sociopaths?

So, in the midst of describing the Republicans as nihilistic sociopaths, you allege that Obama is playing the fiscal cliff like a hot potato, putting it into the hands of the Republican house and using the resulting damage to get everyone to blame the Republicans for the ensuing national misery. Interesting. And would not that political gain from sparking another recession be a little bit... nihilist or sociopathic, in itself? Is Obama somehow purer despite the rather chilling and unpatriotic motives that you impute to him, which sound a lot like the same motives that you impute to the Republicans?

Um no.

Obama is getting Republicans blamed for being irresponsible legislatures.  If the republicans want him to stop all they have to do at any time whatsoever is stop their shit.  If they don't want to be spited for refusing compromise then all they need to do is stop refusing compromise.  You are just blaming Obama for pointing out that the political faction you support doesn't want to play nice.

Nah, see, it's okay, because he's on our side.

It's only bad if the republicans use those tactics.

I would be more then happy if Republicans blamed Obama for the stuff that's actually his responsibility.  But they don't.  They are cowards who know that they're ideas aren't worth crap so they blame him for their own policies.  They demand he cut social security for a deal then campaign against those cuts.  Then Medicare.  Then Defense.

I'd be over the goddamn moon if Republicans actually took a platform and fought for it under the legislative means that Democrats use.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm just waiting for the Tea Party and the rest of the GOP to snap in half and fly off in different directions, any day now.

[Nadaka]

I'm just waiting for the Tea Party and the rest of the GOP to snap in half and fly off in different directions, any day now.

I am hoping to see that soon, but I doubt it would happen.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm just waiting for the Tea Party and the rest of the GOP to snap in half and fly off in different directions, any day now.

I am hoping to see that soon, but I doubt it would happen.

It is on everyone's minds. There's no denying that there's a lot of inter-party tension between the hardliners and everyone else right now. The hardliners being in charge means that concession is unlikely, so I wouldn't rule out the tension growing too high and one side deciding they'd rather take their chances without the other.

[RedKing]

I'm just waiting for the Tea Party and the rest of the GOP to snap in half and fly off in different directions, any day now.

I am hoping to see that soon, but I doubt it would happen.

It is on everyone's minds. There's no denying that there's a lot of inter-party tension between the hardliners and everyone else right now. The hardliners being in charge means that concession is unlikely, so I wouldn't rule out the tension growing too high and one side deciding they'd rather take their chances without the other.

Problem being that there's always the specter of total dominance by a united (try not to laugh) Democratic Party. It's the same thing that holds the Dem centrists and wannabe Greens together. Maybe if both parties agreed to split simultaneously, and we'd have a 4-party system of center-left/center/center-right/moonbat.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Problem being that there's always the specter of total dominance by a united (try not to laugh) Democratic Party. It's the same thing that holds the Dem centrists and wannabe Greens together. Maybe if both parties agreed to split simultaneously, and we'd have a 4-party system of center-left/center/center-right/moonbat.

That's certainly a threat, but they're a threat to each other as well. The wingnuts see the rest of the party as weakling half-liberals who are holding back the One True Cause and must be expunged, where as the rest of the GOP are terrified by the wingnuts and their crazy ruining every attempt at bipartisanship they begin.

The moderates and leftists of the Democrats, on the other hand, are not particularly threatened by each other and are skilled at cooperating. They have nothing to gain by splitting, while the non-wingnut GOP has a chance at getting some of their goals completed through bipartisanship if they drop the wingnuts.

[Helgoland]

Wasn't FDR a rather authoritarian (for american standards) presidents? Four terms and whatnot - and he was a democrat.
Maybe that's what's needed right now...

[RedKing]

Problem being that there's always the specter of total dominance by a united (try not to laugh) Democratic Party. It's the same thing that holds the Dem centrists and wannabe Greens together. Maybe if both parties agreed to split simultaneously, and we'd have a 4-party system of center-left/center/center-right/moonbat.

That's certainly a threat, but they're a threat to each other as well. The wingnuts see the rest of the party as weakling half-liberals who are holding back the One True Cause and must be expunged, where as the rest of the GOP are terrified by the wingnuts and their crazy ruining every attempt at bipartisanship they begin.

The moderates and leftists of the Democrats, on the other hand, are not particularly threatened by each other and are skilled at cooperating. They have nothing to gain by splitting, while the non-wingnut GOP has a chance at getting some of their goals completed through bipartisanship if they drop the wingnuts.

I suppose my minor quibble there is that the mainstream GOP isn't upset at the fringe ruining their attempts at bipartisanship, but rather for constraining their tactical options, which makes it easier for them to fall prey to a well-planned political trap and means they can't take advantage of opportunities. Boehner could have given up the tax hike on $250,000 after token resistance, and then put the onus on the Democrats to match that "huge" sacrifice with more draconian cuts than they were comfortable with. But he never could have sold that to the Tea Party.

It's like a giant game of Magic: The Gathering, and the Republican side has a card in play that never lets them sacrifice one of their own cards, even if it would work to their benefit. (Geekiest. Political Analogy. EVER.)

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I suppose my minor quibble there is that the mainstream GOP isn't upset at the fringe ruining their attempts at bipartisanship, but rather for constraining their tactical options, which makes it easier for them to fall prey to a well-planned political trap and means they can't take advantage of opportunities. Boehner could have given up the tax hike on $250,000 after token resistance, and then put the onus on the Democrats to match that "huge" sacrifice with more draconian cuts than they were comfortable with. But he never could have sold that to the Tea Party.

From where I'm standing, that is bipartisanship.