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[Rose]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/12/first-hindu-elected-to-congress/

This news is relevant to me, personally.

[Owlbread]

Everyone always feels like the other side is beyond the pale.  Right now I guarantee you there are conservatives on some board posting how the democratic party won't exist in 10 years.

Specifically they're submitting petitions for state secession.  I have a pastor in my family who is legitimately hoping Texas secedes so that he can move there.  Browsing the news, it seems mostly to be empty blustering, but still.  I'm a poor judge but maybe in Texas's case it's an actual threat?

"Petitions have been filed for Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas."

Remember how they chanted "USA USA USA" over any opposition in 2000 and 2004?  Whether one agrees with the Democrat platform or not, there is a real difference in how the two parties react when threatened.  Democrats hedge, Republicans get angry.

And here I am again, responding to a post about the secession movements.

This is a very interesting read.

Those petitions are interesting, but they won't get anywhere. Secession is not a legal right of the states. The Supreme Court made it clear in Texas v. White that it wasn't. A whole war was fought over the concept, and those in favor of it lost. If this continues, then they will be unequivocally rejected by the federal government. Either we'll get another civil war (unlikely, given how the last one turned out and what we're capable of now), or the GOP will get laughed out of existence for trying to organize a mass-secession. Either way, as was said before in this thread, the next century or so will be a very interesting time for American politics. We're about due for a party fracture/realignment.

Also, there's that episode of Boston Legal that I mentioned earlier. Patriot Acts, S4E20. It's relevant, entertaining, and informational.

It's for this very reason that I think Puerto Rico is making a big mistake in joining an "unbreakable union of unbreakable states". There's no way back.

[Strife26]

Methane hydrates are not self-propagating possibly-sentient alien bioweapons.

Yeah, but just to be safe, I think that starting development on the mammoth tank is prudent anyway.






I still find the whole secession issue to be kinda ridiculous, considering the utterly small number of people involved in it. However, it's pretty easy to see why it's being reported on. I wonder what kind of political change it'll beget, though.

[scriver]

I don't see why they shouldn't be able to recede (you know, if we pretend for a second that the separatists are a vast majority rather than a few crazies). This isn't the 19th century any more. It's not like it's unrealistic, either. Peaceful secessions have been done before. Czekoslovakia, for example, or the Norwegian split from Sweden of 1905, despite the Swedish conservatives and even the king himself calling for war against them.

[Sheb]

Yeah, just because there is no legal framework for a secession doesn't mean it can't be done. Look at Scotland for exemple.

[Bohandas]

And I'm sorry but you are wrong to think that parties can't make about faces over the objections of the base.  The GOP has done it not once but three times in the past 100 years alone.

Plus, if you backtrack further, all the way to the time of Lincoln both parties roles were reversed and it was the Democrats who hated minorities and loved states' rights and the Republicans who were sane.

[Dutchling]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/12/first-hindu-elected-to-congress/

This news is relevant to me, personally.

Personally? Does that mean you know why Hindu men have a bit of hair at the back longer than the rest?

[Rose]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/12/first-hindu-elected-to-congress/

This news is relevant to me, personally.

Personally? Does that mean you know why Hindu men have a bit of hair at the back longer than the rest?

It means I have a bit of hair on the back of my head that's longer than the rest.

[Owlbread]

Yeah, just because there is no legal framework for a secession doesn't mean it can't be done. Look at Scotland for exemple.

We had to make up our own legal framework though this year before we could do anything. The British government is also very cooperative, probably because they know they'll win anyway. If you look at Spain, the Catalans would win a referendum tomorrow on Catalan independence but the Spanish government is completely refusing to allow them to vote on the matter. It's going to be ugly over the next year or so. The Catalan seperatists will come out best of course, provided there isn't a bombshell about the EU or something, but it'll be hard going. Legal framework isn't 100% necessary but it's so, so helpful. The seperatists in the USA should thank god they're not Malians - look at what happened in Azawad.

[Nadaka]

http://news.yahoo.com/arizona-woman-runs-down-husband-car-not-voting-045426220.html

Woman runs over her husband because he didn't vote, citing fears that Obama's reelection might lead to personal financial hardships... such has having a husband who was run over by a car.

You know what? it might be time for this thread to end. All we have left to do is (complain about|make fun of) the fallout from the election.

[GlyphGryph]

Man, crazy ass sci-fi stuff has been popping out of the woodwork in the last 3 months. FTL, crystal energy (of a sort), practical synthetic hydrocarbons.

Christ, what's next? Cracking immortality by 2013?

Well, they've recently come out with some REALLY high quality cloaking devices that not only cover the full visual spectrum but avoid the nasty "reflections" problem that was causing trouble with the previous ones.

[Bohandas]

Man, crazy ass sci-fi stuff has been popping out of the woodwork in the last 3 months. FTL, crystal energy (of a sort), practical synthetic hydrocarbons.

Christ, what's next? Cracking immortality by 2013?

Well, they've recently come out with some REALLY high quality cloaking devices that not only cover the full visual spectrum but avoid the nasty "reflections" problem that was causing trouble with the previous ones.

Is this the one that heats up to thousands of degrees fahrenheit and only works underwater?

[GlyphGryph]

Nah, this is the one they are having problems scaling. It's unidirectional and only works on relatively small objects, but it does work.

[Soralin]

And I'm sorry but you are wrong to think that parties can't make about faces over the objections of the base.  The GOP has done it not once but three times in the past 100 years alone.

Plus, if you backtrack further, all the way to the time of Lincoln both parties roles were reversed and it was the Democrats who hated minorities and loved states' rights and the Republicans who were sane.

That's not really backtracking further, that's going back to about 60 years ago or so.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy for how it happened.

[Kogan Loloklam]

Whoever made up the list of states to file petitions was a Romney Pollster.
Colorado is not a state that would abandon the Union. EVEN IF IT WERE, it would not do so with Texas.
Montana is a better choice.
Play any game of creating a "new civil war" with someone from Colorado. They always lump it with the Union. Contrast that with Texans, who almost always go with the seperatists.

On to military nessessity...
I've stated before that I served in the US Marines. I enjoyed it and would do anything for my fellow Marines, EXCEPT violate my Honor. While it is sad that there are individuals that serve in our Armed Forces that lack Honor and require civilian Oversight to do the right thing, it isn't true for all of the Military. My oath wasn't to a "scrap of paper", but to a constitution. A constitution is a codified system of government, which can be written on paper, but also passed orally. I won't defend a piece of paper, instead I would, did, and will defend a system of government founded on the Rule of Law and certain principles of universal rights. I have no problem agrreeing to risk my life for them. It's easy to follow through when I am also supporting my brothers in battle, but the initial agreement was for the principle, and the principle is how I continue to look back and judge that I made the right choice. I did not violate my Honor, and as such joined a large group of men throughout history that can show that you can be a warrior without being a monster. It's sad that fewer people are "coming back with their shields", but that doesn't mean someone who has lost theirs or can percieve themselves without it has any right to speak for those who retain theirs.

Probably a damn POGie too...