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[Trollheiming]

I don't see how those people are parasites. Well, I kinda do, but they're just acting like human beings and want nice/free things. To me it seems like the problem is with the politicians and people in power promising more social services than they can reasonably pay, but nobody really cares about politics anymore so the politicians get away with it.

That's why I re-read the whole exchange and changed my mind about that particular choice of verbiage. Frankly, most of the exchange afterward consisted of Mich calling me a parasite, and my replying that I didn't even live in the country. If I had been asked more directly why they were worthy of being called parasites, I'd have had to think about it, rather than defending myself from being a parasite.

All that what not my main point. The fact that $16 trillion in debt means we can't expand liberal social systems. Obama wins, but he has to reduce government. The piggy bank is broken. This is now near the sane limit of debt-to-GDP.

[Ogdibus]

Is... is there even an opposing side to fiscal conservatism? I can't imagine somebody who would want to willingly increase the deficit spending.

It's supposed to be investment in public works and services, the idea being that they facilitate productivity with things like infrastructure for logistics, energy distribution, and a healthy, dedicated work force.  Fiscal conservatism isn't so much opposed, as it is intended to keep these investments practical and affordable.

[mainiac]

I have lived in Shanghai. Xi'an right now.

Yeah I figured.  Let me spell this out for you.  A typical westerner in Shanghai has about as much understanding of China as a typical airline passenger laying over in Atlanta has of the deep south.  Xi'an is a bit better but it doesn't outweigh the negative knowledge accrued by living in Shanghai.

[Nadaka]

Yea, US is first past the post.
Australia has Labor (Kinda not bad) and Liberal + Nationals (Evil) as the big two, then Greens as balance of power (Good guys) and Katter as his own party (Nutter)
Then we have a massive shitton of parties for state and local government, including The Shooters and Fishers Party, Help End Marijuana Prohibition (HEMP) Party, and The Australian Sex Party.

Australian Sex Party? Oh yea!

[Max White]

And lest anyone forget to bring it up, a slight reduction in military spending and raising most tax rates back to where they were in the economically roaring 1990s would mathematically all but eliminate the deficit.

Dammit man, were in a war! A war on witches/communism/terror! Cutting military spending is the last thing we should do!

Anyway, how much do you guys spend on new uniforms? $1.030–$1.415 trillion? Ok, so a little more than the cost of the Starwars franchise. Let's put that in context!
So while the US accounts for 41% of the worlds total accounted for military spending, the second place China manages an impressive 8%, followed by 4.1, 3.6 and 3.6. So a good lead over competitors!

But the US is a big place with a large population, so these numbers could be distorted! Lets look at the GDP to get a better idea of what is going on. Well here the US isn't winning the race, only coming in second behind the peaceful nation of Saudi Arabia. But it is still a hard hitter with, spending about three times that of pussy siblings Canada and Australia, and let's face it, they are both mommys boys, never left the commonwealth!

So, should the US cut military spending? Not until we are sure that should anything provoke any sort of attack, they can nuke all life on earth, take out the international space station, and put out the sun, ensuring no life can ever persist in this solar system. Rock on US!

[10ebbor10]

There's lots of ways for America to get out of the minor deficit she's in. None of them require cutting money to people who are taking it right now, and anyone who claims otherwise has an agenda against the program or is simply uninformed on how those programs to affect the country as a whole and blah blah blah zzz. I shouldn't even have to explain a simple goddamn thing like this.

I wouldn't call a 8% GDP deficit minor. I mean it's worse than Greece(Procentually). Other fun numbers is that the deficit is 3 times larger than the entire GDP of Belgium.
((Not counting social revunues and expenses, which would add another 1.3 trillion dollars deficit))

[USEC_OFFICER]

All that what not my main point. The fact that $16 trillion in debt means we can't expand liberal social systems. Obama wins, but he has to reduce government. The piggy bank is broken. This is now near the sane limit of debt-to-GDP.

Or Obama could always raise taxes on the rich back to normal levels and put that extra money into reducing the deficit without cutting any programs. Or he could raise taxes a little, cut into the military and reduce the deficit that way. Honestly I don't see why the Americans are so against raising taxes. Given how the deficit is almost a national crisis you'd think everybody would be fine with increased taxes, especially since you could always lower taxes afterwards. The piggy bank isn't broken, it's just wedged shut by Congress's inability to compromise.

Is... is there even an opposing side to fiscal conservatism? I can't imagine somebody who would want to willingly increase the deficit spending.

It's supposed to be investment in public works and services, the idea being that they facilitate productivity with things like infrastructure for logistics, energy distribution, and a healthy, dedicated work force.  Fiscal conservatism isn't so much opposed, as it is intended to keep these investments practical and affordable.

So it's not really an opposition then, it's just people with different ideas about how much the government should spend.

[Reelya]

Yea, US is first past the post.
Australia has Labor (Kinda not bad) and Liberal + Nationals (Evil) as the big two, then Greens as balance of power (Good guys) and Katter as his own party (Nutter)
Then we have a massive shitton of parties for state and local government, including The Shooters and Fishers Party, Help End Marijuana Prohibition (HEMP) Party, and The Australian Sex Party.

Australian Sex Party? Oh yea!

The only problem is that it's the Australian Sex Party. Which involves a whole lot of drunken groping after a big night on the grog.

Note that Iran doesn't even come on the top 15 of Max White's military spending. Going by spending, Canada could whup Iran's ass.

[Max White]

The Sex party is actually pretty good. It stands mostly for a more secular nation and removing religious codes of conduct from law. It is sort of the anti-family first party. Not to mention is against internet censorship and a strong supporter of an R rating for video games here.

[RedKing]

ERMAGEHRD

MERKS WHERT!!

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I wouldn't call a 8% GDP deficit minor. I mean it's worse than Greece(Procentually). Other fun numbers is that the deficit is 3 times larger than the entire GDP of Belgium.
((Not counting social revunues and expenses, which would add another 1.3 trillion dollars deficit))

Yes, it's a minor deficit for a country with a 15 trillion+ a year GDP. Sequestration would cut the deficit to manageable levels almost immediately; the next spending bills would patch up any critical failings in the systems we have in place, and we'd be on a good path to a balanced budget in 2014. Then we'd need more permanent reforms to how we deal with health care and the inflated illusionary costs rigged into the system.

Like I've said, we can fix the ship without throwing anyone overboard; it just takes some effort and compromise.

[majikero]

Compromise does not exist within the American Political Dictionary. 

[10ebbor10]

I wouldn't call a 8% GDP deficit minor. I mean it's worse than Greece(Procentually). Other fun numbers is that the deficit is 3 times larger than the entire GDP of Belgium.
((Not counting social revunues and expenses, which would add another 1.3 trillion dollars deficit))

Yes, it's a minor deficit for a country with a 15 trillion+ a year GDP. Sequestration would cut the deficit to manageable levels almost immediately; the next spending bills would patch up any critical failings in the systems we have in place, and we'd be on a good path to a balanced budget in 2014. Then we'd need more permanent reforms to how we deal with health care and the inflated illusionary costs rigged into the system.

Like I've said, we can fix the ship without throwing anyone overboard; it just takes some effort and compromise.

Procentual deficit means that the size of the GDP doesn't really matter. The larger the GDP, the larger the actual deficit.

But yeah, the US doesn't have such large problems. Plenty of space to cut/ raise taxes and suchlike. Provided nobody blocks the system, everything will work out.

[tahujdt]

Honestly I don't see why the Americans are so against raising taxes. Given how the deficit is almost a national crisis you'd think everybody would be fine with increased taxes, especially since you could always lower taxes afterwards.

you'd think everybody would be fine with increased taxes, especially since you could always lower taxes afterwards.

especially since you could always lower taxes afterwards.

Are you insane? Maybe it's a bit different wherever you come from, but the US Government, once it raises taxes, never cuts them again!

[10ebbor10]

Honestly I don't see why the Americans are so against raising taxes. Given how the deficit is almost a national crisis you'd think everybody would be fine with increased taxes, especially since you could always lower taxes afterwards.

you'd think everybody would be fine with increased taxes, especially since you could always lower taxes afterwards.

especially since you could always lower taxes afterwards.

Are you insane? Maybe it's a bit different wherever you come from, but the US Government, once it raises taxes, never cuts them again!

Except if they are for the rich, of course.