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[Trollheiming]

You disagree that the debt is $16 trillion and there's a breaking point somewhere when the interest keeps mounting? That's insightful. Do continue.

You'd think someone college educated wouldn't instantly pull a strawman out of his ass to start an arguement with a fiscal conservative.

You'd think an engineer could run a MATLAB simulation of an exponential curve.

Let me clue you right now, the end of the war in Iraq did nothing to help the deficit and the end of the war in Afghanistan won't, either. It's not the DoD growing larger, which is just 19% of the budget. It's the entitlements and goodies that are about 60% of the budget and growing.

Cute. And what is your plan to cut entitlements and goodies without effecting the poor and the elderly who do rely on those things, after they pay into them via taxes?

How do you think a modern society exists? Through throwing the weak and the less of luck under the bus?

Lol. Fuzzy thinking. All those appeals to social justice don't matter when the bill comes due. It can't be financed. No one will continue buying bonds. The well dries up. This has nothing to do with what you think is socially just. $16 trillion. Are you going to come to grips with the hard facts of that number or waste my time?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Holy hell, you're a waste of time. Enjoy your bubble world.

It pisses me off how punks like you seem to think the world revolves around one person.

If you can look me in the face and say China [and the rest of the world] will stop buying the US's bonds simply because of a measly 16 trillion in debt [in a country that is the wealthiest since the existence of mankind] I can solidly say you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Ogdibus]

Wait, who are the parasites?  Is it the people that created circumstances under which the government felt it necessary to go $16 trillion into debt?

[Trollheiming]

Holy hell, you're a waste of time. Enjoy your bubble world.

$16 trillion. That's your bubble. And it will burst.

Take note, everyone. He made appeals to emotion, and I just kept asking him to confront a single number. He couldn't do it.

Wait, who are the parasites?  Is it the people that created circumstances under which the government felt it necessary to go $16 trillion into debt?

The thing is, if you kept a restrained safety net for people who temporarily needed it, it could have been maintained. But too many people are availing themselves of too generous a pay out. That's the undeniable truth behind $16 trillion in debt. Even now, I hear people talking about this election meaning students get more free education. It's not there in the piggy bank. The piggy bank is gone bust.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

It's hard for some children to get reading comprehension, I understand young one, it's not everyone's strong suit.

If you can look me in the face and say China [and the rest of the world] will stop buying the US's bonds simply because of a measly 16 trillion in debt [in a country that is the wealthiest since the existence of mankind] I can solidly say you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

"Bonds!" "16 trillion!" "Rehashed talking point!" Is not a position.

[The Scout]

As soon as Obama was elected, my entire house went awwwww. Life just got a bit weirder for us.

[SalmonGod]

Meh... another favorite pastime of internet libertarians.  Automatically assuming the position of anybody who disagrees with you, and launching a rant against that position.  Thankfully the ones I know in real life aren't like you.

I'm not a democrat.  I'm an anarchist (social libertarian).  I think all this crap about the deficit is a meaningless abstract number game that represents practically nothing in reality.  I think our entire economic system needs to be fundamentally redesigned, including the ways in which we measure value and ownership.  Your arguments only describe to me how broken capitalism is.

I'm also not an Obama fan.  My top political priorities are information freedom and the environment, and I believe Obama was actively counter-productive on both points.

[Trollheiming]

It's hard for some children to get reading comprehension, I understand young one, it's not everyone's strong suit.

If you can look me in the face and say China [and the rest of the world] will stop buying the US's bonds simply because of a measly 16 trillion in debt [in a country that is the wealthiest since the existence of mankind] I can solidly say you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

"Bonds!" "16 trillion!" "Rehashed talking point!" Is not a position.

I can look you right in your textual correspondence and say that China has started selling US bonds this past year. You can't sell them all at once without panicking the market and devaluing your own assets. But the buying has stopped and the selling began.

All this has happened before in places like Agentina. The debt bubble and the eventual bankruptcy. There's nothing to do but open your eyes. America is not uniquely special in overcoming the laws of macroeconomics.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Wanna know how to nearly completely fix the deficit, and do nothing?

Let the sequester go through. Other countries know our economy is strong and the deficits are so negligible as to be fixed by one round of targeted defense cuts, so Argentina is... not a valid comparison.

[Trollheiming]

I'm not a democrat.  I'm an anarchist (social libertarian).  I think all this crap about the deficit is a meaningless abstract number game that represents practically nothing in reality.  I think our entire economic system needs to be fundamentally redesigned, including the ways in which we measure value and ownership.  Your arguments only describe to me how broken capitalism is.

Lol. A guy who thinks debts don't matter and people will continue paying for America to live beyond its means indefinitely. You really believe in a money tree, eh? You guys are hilarious.

[Ogdibus]

Holy hell, you're a waste of time. Enjoy your bubble world.

$16 trillion. That's your bubble. And it will burst.

Take note, everyone. He made appeals to emotion, and I just kept asking him to confront a single number. He couldn't do it.

Wait, who are the parasites?  Is it the people that created circumstances under which the government felt it necessary to go $16 trillion into debt?

The thing is, if you kept a restrained safety net for people who temporarily needed it, it could have been maintained. But too many people are availing themselves of too generous a pay out. That's the undeniable truth behind $16 trillion in debt. Even now, I hear people talking about this election meaning students get more free education. It's not there in the piggy bank. The piggy bank is gone bust.

Big bank bail-outs not a factor? x3

[Darvi]

Wanna know how to nearly completely fix the deficit, and do nothing?

Technically, unless the answer is "nothing", then you're not exactly doing nothing. Minor nitpick.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Lol. A guy who thinks debts don't matter and people will continue paying for America to live beyond its means indefinitely. You really believe in a money tree, eh? You guys are hilarious.

It's cute because I just told you how to nearly fix the deficit with an action. If I were your boss you'd be fired for lacking simple economic understanding of America and the world, to be honest.

[alexandertnt]

Tough luck. Piggy bank is going bust. Liberalism is dying out, but it's going out on a binge like there's no tomorrow. Next up, the Fiscal Cliff. You've got nothing to celebrate today. The fact is, all your goodies are about to end. Forget the government helping you with student loans. $16 trillion debt.

Take what money you probably make each year. Now you're making that much money each second of your life. Now live until age 70. That's what $16 trillion looks like, and it's going to increase dramatically in four years. America has succumbed to the parasites that only wanted goodies and hated productive people.

Buuut I want more free health care/education, and I have not finished hating productive people yet!

But seriously, meaningless straw man is meaningless.

Also you state "and it's going to increase dramatically in four years" as if its a fact, rather than speculation (unless you can predict the futute/have a time machine, which you can't do/don't have, right?).

You disagree that the debt is $16 trillion and there's a breaking point somewhere when the interest keeps mounting? That's insightful. Do continue.

Let me clue you right now, the end of the war in Iraq did nothing to help the deficit and the end of the war in Afghanistan won't, either. It's not the DoD growing larger, which is just 19% of the budget. It's the entitlements and goodies that are about 60% of the budget and growing.

And why do I have to personally account for myself when there are facts, not a personal issue, to be discussed? I live in China. I use Chinese services. How could I get anything from the American government here? I mean, theoretically, I could collect Social Security, if you really believe that it will exist in 40 years. Hahah!

The goodies are going bye bye. Have one last round on the house.

Meaningless straw man is meaningless.

The only definite "facts" you have presented has been stating the deficit, and that you live in china.

$16 trillion. That's your bubble. And it will burst.
Take note, everyone. He made appeals to emotion, and I just kept asking him to confront a single number. He couldn't do it.

You continue to state the deficit without explaining how "liberalism" is causing it. Just that it "is" $16 Trillion. Also, given your constant use of straw men, accusing someone of using an emotional fallacy is ironic.

I live in Australia. We have a significantly larger public health system, interest free student loans, and numerous things that would be considered "liberal" in America. Our debt is considerably smaller than America's (And is apparently expected to disappear in a year or 2 (how successful that will be is another question)). I have never quite understood why some people view things like Universal health care as the end of the economy.

The advantage of having Obama re-elected is the reduced chance of America going to war with another random middle-east country, dragging Australia along with them (both our major parties always seem to fall head-over-heals to follow, unfortunetely).

I'm not a democrat.  I'm an anarchist (social libertarian).  I think all this crap about the deficit is a meaningless abstract number game that represents practically nothing in reality.  I think our entire economic system needs to be fundamentally redesigned, including the ways in which we measure value and ownership.  Your arguments only describe to me how broken capitalism is.

I agree that Capitalism, at least pure Capitalism is pretty broken. Bor for the deficit... you could simply pretent it does not exist, and that would eliminate the deficit.

China might be pretty pissed though. That tends to be the meaning behind the number.

[Trollheiming]

Wanna know how to nearly completely fix the deficit, and do nothing?

Let the sequester go through. Other countries know our economy is strong and the deficits are so negligible as to be fixed by one round of targeted defense cuts, so Argentina is... not a valid comparison.

$1 trillion a year is negligible. That's funny. The sequester is $1.2 trillion over years 2013 and 2021. Spending cuts over eight years are not going to really solve $1 trillion each year.

And Defense alone is not going to be hit. Sequestration hits many departments. But that's what I was saying. The piggy bank is broken. You can't do the sequestration and talk of more goodies. It's dried up.