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[GlyphGryph]

I mean, hell, there's a number of pretty terrible outright BLATANT lies he's stuck to unapologetically, like the huge uptick in federal raids on state marijuana growers in states that have found it legal. These are lies (ad actions) that have actually /hurt/ people, significantly! He promised not to do that. You'd think if you were wanting to turn the liberal crowd against Obama, you'd hit on areas that, y'know, actually appeal to liberal values, no?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

It's cute because he's blind to the fact that it was the Obama administration that forced the amendment that added 'this bill shall have no impact on current powers of detention' or something along those lines; since it was the Republican congress forcing through the NDAA in it's purest Fascist form.

Here's something else for you to read, young Troll. That's if you like to be educated about the shit you like to spew off.

[scriver]

Shooting the messenger, eh?

You're not "the messenger". "The messenger" is, by definition, someone who brings a message from someone else, and are thus not blameable for what is in that message as it is not is own opinion. This is your opinion. This is your message. If someone calls it bullshit or you a bullshitter, they are not "shooting the messenger" in any sense of what the phrase means.

[Shadowlord]

Shooting the messenger, eh?

You're not "the messenger". "The messenger" is, by definition, someone who brings a message from someone else, and are thus not blameable for what is in that message as it is not is own opinion. This is your opinion. This is your message. If someone calls it bullshit or you a bullshitter, they are not "shooting the messenger" in any sense of what the phrase means.

On the other hand, if you're saying it's not your opinion, then you just admitted to trolling. 

[Trollheiming]

It's cute because he's blind to the fact that it was the Obama administration that forced the amendment that added 'this bill shall have no impact on current powers of detention' or something along those lines; since it was the Republican congress forcing through the NDAA in it's purest Fascist form.

Here's something else for you to read, young Troll. That's if you like to be educated about the shit you like to spew off.

Nice article. You should even try reading it rather than babbling. It really doesn't dispute anything, just leaves a few harshest points out while still amply taking him to task. The part where I burst into laughter was when you made a claim and then said "or something along those lines" because that part really persuaded me that you knew what you were talking about!

In fact, what your referring to was a clause that limited the NDAA to non-citizens in the House Bill, and the Democratic Senate removed that clause at the President's behest. Not added protections. Removed limitations. 

http://www.change.org/petitions/out-with-congress-ndaa-1031-citizen-imprisonment-agnostic-law-is-now-here

"Or something like that." Lol. 

Now run along to that link and get your own self educated. Your charade is up.

Same for... everything else you've listed. There aren't exactly many people here that I would say are enthusiastic about voting for Obama. But seriously - what's your alternative right now?

I discounted anyone here voting for Mitt before I entered this thread. He's a decent guy, but no way I change any minds here. I'm just asking about Obama. You probably all cried about Bush being a killer and a liar, now you've got 4 years of Obama lying and killing innocent bystanders with drones... How's it feel to being voting for that? Just a party thing, right? It's just something ya gotta do for the team, eh?

[scriver]

You should lurk more. Then you'd realise most American lefties on this forum aren't Democrats.

[Sheb]

Well, I'm not an American, and I consider Obama a killer too. Hate the guy. It's realy bad that the alternative were and are even worse.

[Trollheiming]

Well, I'm not an American, and I consider Obama a killer too. Hate the guy. It's realy bad that the alternative were and are even worse.

I disagree that Romney is worse than Obama, but not enough to argue it with any force. I voted for Bush the first time, but not in 2004. It's curious that liberals now have the same dilemma that I felt.

[GoombaGeek]

I mean, hell, there's a number of pretty terrible outright BLATANT lies he's stuck to unapologetically, like the huge uptick in federal raids on state marijuana growers in states that have found it legal. These are lies (ad actions) that have actually /hurt/ people, significantly! He promised not to do that. You'd think if you were wanting to turn the liberal crowd against Obama, you'd hit on areas that, y'know, actually appeal to liberal values, no?

Liberal values = weed.

Right? Appeal to those danged lefties, just mention weed, right? Riiight? It's not like they believe in anything else!

[GlyphGryph]

Liberal values = not having the highest incarceration rate among developing countries, not ruining people's lives for doing things that have no impact on you, not fueling corporate gred and corruption, not trampling on civil liberties. Not being evil fucking assholes.

Yes, those are all liberal values.

What's the matter, you SUPPORT ruining people's lives for doing the exact same shit both our presidents admit to doing? You support wars on the poor? You support throwing punitive punishments on top of mistakes that only hurt the one who made them? You support the the guns-for-drugs, criminal-civil-war causing war on some drugs that we've decided we don't like because poor people do them?

And least of all, you support the federal government stripping away rights that states have granted to their citizens for what amounts to a corporate cash grab?

Not even that, though! Because this isn't even the war on some drugs that we're talking about at this point. No, this is a war on doctors, and on state governments, to take things away from sick people that make them feel better.

It isn't about "weed", it's about basic human decency. So basic, in fact, that Obama pledged before entering office that he'd support the state's rights to make that decision (and then went back on it).

What's the matter - do you not support any of that? Do you not think it's an issue that liberals would care about? (Hell, with Republican's being state's rights supporters in general, it's something that should piss people off on both sides of the aisle.)

But no, it's not just about weed - you could go after Obama for supporting the expansion of domestic spying programs, for increasing the difficulty of succeeding with a Freedom of Information request, for a whole host of things he's actually done, for reasons that conflict with the opinions of liberals. The only problem I had here was that Troll is going after Obama with things that merely make me ask "What's your point?"

I didn't say they didn't care about anything else, but anyone who IS "liberal" should care about that.

[Jerick]

I disagree that Romney is worse than Obama, but not enough to argue it with any force. I voted for Bush the first time, but not in 2004.

Not really Mitt's economic and forgein policy ideas are, from what I've seen and heard, moronic.
The reasons I dislike Obama isn't because of stupid policies at least.
So it's at least safer to have him run your country than Mitt

now you've got 4 years of Obama lying and killing innocent bystanders with drones... How's it feel to being voting for that? Just a party thing, right? It's just something ya gotta do for the team, eh?

And Romney wouldn't do the exact same?
This is my big problem with American politics; you don't actualy have choice.
Both parties will do the same bad things, nethier party really cares about you as more than a vote and both are acting on behalf of the groups that help fund them and their campaigns.
In the broken and very undemocratic American system there is no thrid option.

It's curious that liberals now have the same dilemma that I felt.

I don't consider myself a liberal because the word is meaningless to me as is the concept that you can sum up someone's political views with one of two words.
In fact I would consider it insulting to simply label someone Liberal or Conservative because it implies no depth to the persons views and gives no thought to how they might be different.

[GoombaGeek]

Liberal values = not having the highest incarceration rate among developing countries, not ruining people's lives for doing things that have no impact on you, not fueling corporate gred and corruption, not trampling on civil liberties. Not being evil fucking assholes.

Yes, those are all liberal values.

What's the matter, you SUPPORT ruining people's lives for doing the exact same shit both our presidents admit to doing? You support wars on the poor? You support throwing punitive punishments on top of mistakes that only hurt the one who made them? You support the the guns-for-drugs, criminal-civil-war causing war on some drugs that we've decided we don't like because poor people do them?

And least of all, you support the federal government stripping away rights that states have granted to their citizens for what amounts to a corporate cash grab?

Not even that, though! Because this isn't even the war on some drugs that we're talking about at this point. No, this is a war on doctors, and on state governments, to take things away from sick people that make them feel better.

It isn't about "weed", it's about basic human decency. So basic, in fact, that Obama pledged before entering office that he'd support the state's rights to make that decision (and then went back on it).

What's the matter - do you not support any of that? Do you not think it's an issue that liberals would care about? (Hell, with Republican's being state's rights supporters in general, it's something that should piss people off on both sides of the aisle.)

But no, it's not just about weed - you could go after Obama for supporting the expansion of domestic spying programs, for increasing the difficulty of succeeding with a Freedom of Information request, for a whole host of things he's actually done, for reasons that conflict with the opinions of liberals. The only problem I had here was that Troll is going after Obama with things that merely make me ask "What's your point?"

I didn't say they didn't care about anything else, but anyone who IS "liberal" should care about that.

Holy crap, that is a lot of angry assumptions from five sentences, four of which were sentence fragments.

Wow.

What's the matter, you SUPPORT ruining people's lives for doing the exact same shit both our presidents admit to doing? You support wars on the poor? You support throwing punitive punishments on top of mistakes that only hurt the one who made them? You support the the guns-for-drugs, criminal-civil-war causing war on some drugs that we've decided we don't like because poor people do them?

You got me, I'm pro-ruining lives. It's my party. Vote Ruining Lives 2012.

You SUPPORT angry unfocused rage? You do? You SUPPORT it? How can you SUPPORT it? You mean you SUPPORT IT?

And least of all, you support the federal government stripping away rights that states have granted to their citizens for what amounts to a corporate cash grab?

I mail my federal government every day telling them to remove the rights of everyone in my state. It hasn't worked so far.

What's the matter - do you not support any of that? Do you not think it's an issue that liberals would care about? (Hell, with Republican's being state's rights supporters in general, it's something that should piss people off on both sides of the aisle.)

But no, it's not just about weed - you could go after Obama for supporting the expansion of domestic spying programs, for increasing the difficulty of succeeding with a Freedom of Information request, for a whole host of things he's actually done, for reasons that conflict with the opinions of liberals. The only problem I had here was that Troll is going after Obama with things that merely make me ask "What's your point?"

Got me again, I always Republican's, when I'm not going after Obama for spying on me.

I didn't say they didn't care about anything else, but anyone who IS "liberal" should care about that.

You aren't a REAL "liberal" unless you "agree" with "me"! I am the "only" "liberal"! The "quotation marks" are to instill a "sense" of "doubt" in your feeble mind!! I hope you feel remorse for what you did to those poor people by voting Ruining Lives in the last election!

[Darvi]

In the broken and very undemocratic American system there is no thrid option.

There actually is. Vote Cthulhu '12, and all our problems will be solved before the next election period!

[Nadaka]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/koch-industries-sends-pro-romney-packet-employees-195709471--election.html

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/19788789/2012/10/10/resort-owner-employees-jobs-are-in-jeopardy-if-obama-is-re-elected

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/10/3043168/developer-obama-re-election-may.html

Elect Obama and be fired. There is a new wave of voter intimidation by employers threatening to lay off workers or close down shop completely if Obama is reelected.

[Zangi]

Oh great... companies have the money to speak directly to politicians, to pay millions for political ads without oversight and now they are threatening employee jobs if things do not go their way.