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[SalmonGod]

Thanks for the links.  I will read into them.


I see there was some confusion regarding the existence of libertarian socialism earlier. It's the school of political thought that I most identify with, especially this:

Adherents of libertarian socialism assert that a society based on freedom and equality can be achieved through abolishing authoritarian institutions that control certain means of production and subordinate the majority to an owning class or political and economic elite.  Libertarian socialism also constitutes a tendency of thought that promotes the identification, criticism, and practical dismantling of illegitimate authority in all aspects of life.

Subjugate someone by direct force, and it will be seen as plain tyranny that will be opposed.  Subjugate someone by claiming ownership of the things they depend on for a decent quality of life, or a life at all, and it will be seen as an unfortunate reality that must simply be drudged through.  My belief is that latter is just as violent as the former.  In the former, you accept subjugation or meet with violence.  In the latter, you accept subjugation or make your choice between death by poverty or violence.  This puts me at odds with all major state and economic models, because they are two sides of the same coin (any claim of ownership requires an institution to reinforce the legitimacy of that claim, i.e. some form of state or analogous organization) and are primarily concerned with detailing the process by which one group of people may subjugate the rest by exerting disproportionate influence over the distribution of resources. 

Furthermore, authoritative hierarchy in any form poisons human relationships to the core.  Barring psychological disorder, people are naturally repulsed by the idea of harming those they see as equal human beings.  Hierarchy grants people the ability to be callous by giving them a culturally legitimized means of defining others as less important or even less human, and it works both ways, with trauma and resentment being increasingly likely towards the bottom.

There's the founding principles behind all my political beliefs, in summary, and I developed those ideas on my own long before I found anything about libertarian socialism or even knew who Chomsky was.

[GreatJustice]

You also ought to remember that the government regularly seizes land either directly or indirectly

[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

I'm surprised you actually need (well, had I posted earlier you would need) a citation for this one. Eminent Domain is probably one of the most abused powers of government for a variety of reasons, most already said.

Want more?

Yeah, blame the government for what private individuals did to each other.  Never heard that from a libertarian before

Hey, remember when private individuals put down all those slave revolts? Oh wait

Actually a lot of libertarians at the time did exactly that. 

Who? Like Lysander Spooner, famous abolitionist, early libertarian and former owner of the American Letter Mail Company?

Really?

You just selectively spew out disconnected facts everywhere without any actual substantive argument.  That's why whenever I feel tempted to respond to one of your posts properly I just listen to the Ron Paul song.  Pretty much the same level of argument and at least it's funny.

"I don't like your argument, so I'm just going to stereotype what I think you're saying!"

[SalmonGod]

Yeah, blame the government for what private individuals did to each other.  Never heard that from a libertarian before

Hey, remember when private individuals put down all those slave revolts? Oh wait

Do you really believe that linking to an example of a government force putting down a slave revolt (that according to the very first sentence planned to succeed by stealing government property) is somehow proof that private forces didn't do this, or weren't ever the primary motivator behind any force doing this?

This is what Leafsnail was saying about spewing out disconnected facts.  You seem to believe that providing information that describes why you don't like one thing (i.e. demonization) is the same as proving that another thing is better.

[Willfor]

The Keystone pipeline being blocked by Obama made a lot of waves up here. Dominated the radio news I was listening to when it happened. To listen to the Albertan rage over it was quite satisfying. Cry harder oil barons, cry harder.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Pretty sure greatjustice is a troll. He never did respond to all my facts on socialism in Singapore (since I was there) and how WHO rated a bunch of socialist countries with best health care in the world.

When presented with facts he either runs or threadshits a bunch of irrelevant or false information.

[Darvi]

No I think that's just how internet arguments are supposed to work.

[Owlbread]

No I think that's just how internet arguments are supposed to work.

The more you dismiss things as "internet culture" or "just the internet" the more excuses you're giving people to behave badly or act in a stupid way.

[Darvi]

Hence the strike-through.

[Owlbread]

Hence the strike-through.

On second thoughts then, hence why I am... concurring with you, yes, that'll do.

[RedKing]

Yesterday was chock full of Republican herpaderp. Where to start?

1. GOP Representative from Georgia calls evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory "lies straight from the pit of hell". Said representative sits on the House Committee on Science, Space & Technology.  >_<

2. Arkansas GOP state representative publishes a book wherein he calls slavery "a blessing in disguise". Hardly the first time that notion has been floated, but usually sitting politicians are bright enough not to fucking publish it in print.

3. Another Arkansas GOP state House candidate published a book calling for the deportation of all Muslims from the United States. When the Arkansas GOP started eyeing him nervously and saying, "We don't really know that guy", dude was surprised.

Fuqua said Saturday that he hadn’t realized he’d become a target within his own party, which he said surprised him.
“I think my views are fairly well-accepted by most people,” Fuqua said before hanging up, saying he was busy knocking on voters’ doors.

"What? I did some very scientific polling at my last Klan meeting, and all 11 of us agreed that those damn ragheads need to go. Obviously your liberal media is lying to you, because the numbers don't match the reality on my tiny little patch of benighted ground."

[Karlito]

1. GOP Representative from Georgia calls evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory "lies straight from the pit of hell". Said representative sits on the House Committee on Science, Space & Technology.  >_<

It's worth noting that Mr. Todd "Doesn't know how Pregnancy Works" Akin also sits on the Science Committee.

[Reelya]

By Akin's theory God built in an auto-abortion system into the ladies for unwanted pregnancies. Kinda ironic that God himself put that in there. I thought abortions were a sin, and that God was incapable of sin?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

No, no, by Akin's theory it is the curse of women to have unwanted pregnancy for our sins. At least that's what Genesis says.

(It is also interesting how the fundies rarely address the fact that 66% of fertilized eggs fail to implant and that a full 25% of pregnancies do not reach term even with modern technology. If life begins at conception God must really hate embryos.)

[GoombaGeek]

The Keystone pipeline being blocked by Obama made a lot of waves up here. Dominated the radio news I was listening to when it happened. To listen to the Albertan rage over it was quite satisfying. Cry harder oil barons, cry harder.

[Owlbread]

The Keystone pipeline being blocked by Obama made a lot of waves up here. Dominated the radio news I was listening to when it happened. To listen to the Albertan rage over it was quite satisfying. Cry harder oil barons, cry harder.

There are a lot of advertisements in the newspapers in Scotland now for people to go and work in Alberta. Is it a land of milk and honey or will my brother get fucked over?