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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 770557 times)

kaijyuu

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5910 on: September 29, 2012, 09:56:13 pm »

So, propaganda. :P
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For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Leafsnail

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5911 on: September 29, 2012, 09:57:54 pm »

Well yeah it is an advert.
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SalmonGod

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5912 on: September 29, 2012, 10:32:45 pm »

I did, sadly, lose some respect for Samuel L. Jackson as well over that video.  I'm sure he means well, but it's kind of insulting to my intelligence.
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Osmosis Jones

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5913 on: September 29, 2012, 10:53:22 pm »

You have to remember though, that ads are targeted at the lowest common denominator, so high brow humour isn't really common.

That, and it's expressly targeting lazy people who don't care; Samuel L Jackson doing what he does best, or one more bland "For the future of your country..." spiel overlaid over a waving flag? It's trying to do something novel at least (well, sort of novel, there was that Chuck Norris ad last election iirc).

Finally, as cheesy as it is, it's also a shout out to Go the Fuck to Sleep, the audiobook of which was narrated by the man Jackson himself.

So yeah, it's pretty crude up front, but there's a bit of thought underlying it all. Not much, but more than many political ads.
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Aqizzar

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5914 on: September 29, 2012, 10:54:22 pm »

I should kick all of you out of my thread for taking Samuel L Jackson seriously.

Respect yo.
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SalmonGod

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5915 on: September 29, 2012, 11:07:37 pm »

Yeah, I understand everything about the video, and bits of it are funny.  It's the implied "Your reasons for not voting for or being excited about voting for Obama are stupid" that bothers me.  Like we really don't know how insane the republican party is, and that's why we're not motivated.  Right.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 11:09:15 pm by SalmonGod »
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
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In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Owlbread

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5916 on: September 30, 2012, 08:06:05 am »

It also talks up Obama to the nth degree. "Do the right thing - vote Obama". It should be "vote for the guy who's actually competent".
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Sirus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5917 on: September 30, 2012, 04:10:41 pm »

It also talks up Obama to the nth degree. "Do the right thing - vote Obama". It should be "vote for the guy who's actually competent".
And that's different from every other advertising campaign ever...how exactly? :P
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PTTG??

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5918 on: October 01, 2012, 11:12:49 am »

I'm really surprised people are putting this much thought into the presidential campaign still. The big deal is the congress. Anyone who's played Liberal Crime Squad should know that the president will only matter once you've got an Elite Liberal congress to put bills on his desk... and, I suppose, for when you're looking to replace the Supreme Court.
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Nadaka

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5919 on: October 01, 2012, 11:27:34 am »

I'm really surprised people are putting this much thought into the presidential campaign still. The big deal is the congress. Anyone who's played Liberal Crime Squad should know that the president will only matter once you've got an Elite Liberal congress to put bills on his desk... and, I suppose, for when you're looking to replace the Supreme Court.

The supreme court matters. Scalia is approaching death/retirement. If they can replace Scalia with anyone more likely to vote in the spirit of the constitution instead of the absolute party line policy that Scalia does, the US will be in a far better place in terms of liberty for a long time to come.

And besides that, I have been putting a little bit of congressional info out here.

http://www.electionprojection.com/2012elections/senate12.php

Looks like nothing is changing in the senate.

http://www.electionprojection.com/2012elections/house12.php

And not enough is changing in the house to make a difference.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5920 on: October 01, 2012, 11:43:26 am »

Thomas is more of a party line Justice than Scalia by far. Scalia has issued pro-liberty rulings in the past, it just has to be something you can demonstrate through the literal text of the Constitution.
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lemon10

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5921 on: October 01, 2012, 11:59:13 am »

Yeah, the presidency is very important, because its looking like the winner will replace at least justice, with a chance at replacing another (since Scalia would rather die then retire and get replaced by a democrat).
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5922 on: October 01, 2012, 12:03:54 pm »

While I'm sure Scalia would indeed rather die, he may not have a choice on that point. He's 78 and pretty severely overweight.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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lemon10

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5923 on: October 01, 2012, 12:12:49 pm »

Yeah, I give it 50/50 (because that's a nice round number) that he will make it to 2016. He is pretty fat and isn't really in good health, but medical technology these days can do quite a lot to prolong life, especially if you are rich and are willing to whatever you can for just another few years.

Will be nice to have a liberal court again though by which I mean they won't pass something like citizens united.
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And with a mighty leap, the evil Conservative flies through the window, escaping our heroes once again!
Because the solution to not being able to control your dakka is MOAR DAKKA.

That's it. We've finally crossed over and become the nation of Da Orky Boyz.

palsch

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #5924 on: October 01, 2012, 12:32:49 pm »

Thomas is more of a party line Justice than Scalia by far. Scalia has issued pro-liberty rulings in the past, it just has to be something you can demonstrate through the literal text of the Constitution.
I'd say this is both true and false depending on what you mean by 'party line'.

Thomas is, as far as I can tell, the more consistent with regards to his constitutional interpretation. He is a harder line originalist and textualist than Scalia by far, and so ends up to Scalia's right on occasion.

However, Scalia is more of a partisan ideological individual. He is far more likely to take a position inconsistent with his stated beliefs regarding the constitution and interpretation when it allows him to take a position in line with his political beliefs. Thomas is not perfect in this area but he is nowhere near as blatant about it as Scalia is.

I have far more problems with Scalia. Not only is his partisan ideology more dangerous than Thomas' (admittedly absurd) originalism alone, his conduct is rapidly making the Court itself look like a joke. The only justice I know who is similarly outspoken is Breyer (who I have seen speak) and he comes across as more of a grandfatherly professor. Scalia comes across as Bill O'Riley. And this is becoming more pronounced in the last few years.

A good example of this; Scalia and Breyer debating their views of the constitution back in 2007. These are the two great bomb throwers and ideologues of the court, who filled such a role even then. Yet the debate is reasonable, both make strong cases and good points and it's a really good watch. Then you have Scalia's absurd behaviour this latest term, with open attacks on the president in his opinions and his interviews being hardline partisan in nature.


It's worth noting that Alito, who is being tipped to fill Scalia's role as the right wing anchor from this term onwards, is pretty much Scalia without the pretence of originalism. This could be a good thing or a bad thing, but at least it gives us some good lines;
Quote
During argument in Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association (the "violent video games" case), Alito interrupted a Scalia question to say, "I think what Justice Scalia wants to know is what James Madison thought about video games. Did he enjoy them?"
On the health question, Scalia doesn't seem a likely candidate for Obama to replace. Everything I've seen suggests he is in good health for a man of his age (weight isn't really a good indicator by the by). I wouldn't be surprised if he even outlasts whoever comes after Obama, or at least gets a term into their turn. He certainly is going to give it a go, and I honestly don't see him voluntarily stepping down without a strongly conservative president in place to replace him.

On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if Ginsburg steps down voluntarily after the midterms, especially if the Republicans look strong then. There is no way she will want to risk being replaced by a Republican and her health problems are serious and recurring. I think she could probably last out five or six years, but the risk of having to stretch to another eight or even twelve is too much.
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