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[scriver]

Latest political blundering...

http://www.americablog.com/2011/12/romney-adopts-kkk-slogan-keep-america.html

I am going to give Romney the benefit of the doubt in this case and assume he accidentally adopted his "Keep America American" slogan without knowing it was a KKK slogan in the 1920's.

I don't know. It would be ridiculous to say he was a Klansman, for obvious reasons, and I would doubt that he's even actively racist (as opposed to passively prejudiced), especially in comparison to the other republicans he ran against, but why would he say that? It's not like he can't have known it's connotations, is it? But then again, if he was aware, why choose that exact statement instead of the millions of variations that would mean the same thing but still not have anything to do with the KKK? It's stupid any way you put it.

[Sheb]

Also, he said Keep America America rather than Keep America American. Honsetly, how many of you knew this souded like a KKK slogan before he said it and liberal bloggers started to make a fuss about it?

[scriver]

I didn't know it was KKK, but "Keep [Nation] [Nation-y]" is like the number one slogan for extreme nationalists everywhere. I refuse to believe anyone is un-worldly enough to not recognise the ties to racism such slogans have worldwide. The fact that it's also associated with the KKK in the US just makes it worse.

[Glowcat]

Latest political blundering...

http://www.americablog.com/2011/12/romney-adopts-kkk-slogan-keep-america.html

I am going to give Romney the benefit of the doubt in this case and assume he accidentally adopted his "Keep America American" slogan without knowing it was a KKK slogan in the 1920's.

I don't know. It would be ridiculous to say he was a Klansman, for obvious reasons, and I would doubt that he's even actively racist (as opposed to passively prejudiced), especially in comparison to the other republicans he ran against, but why would he say that? It's not like he can't have known it's connotations, is it? But then again, if he was aware, why choose that exact statement instead of the millions of variations that would mean the same thing but still not have anything to do with the KKK? It's stupid any way you put it.

I dunno. It wasn't until Romney was in his 30s that the Mormon Church finally dropped their official race exclusion policies (and many unfortunately continued unofficial exclusion). Not sure where he stood on the issue during that time, but it's not like Mormons don't have a whole lot of racists in their ranks given how darkskin is supposed to be some kind of curse and there existed the idea that: "If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." and "If that negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the Celestial Kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory." Given Mormonism's history with racism it's pretty irresponsible how Romney would push it with the similar slogan to the KKK's but then again he is prone to gaffes.

But then this is old news.

[Leafsnail]

I didn't know it was KKK, but "Keep [Nation] [Nation-y]" is like the number one slogan for extreme nationalists everywhere.

Yep.  The slogan is inherently xenophobic since it implies that your country is perfect and right and the problem is those foreign people corrupting it.  The fact that groups like the KKK and the BNP use similar slogans merely demonstrates that.

[RedKing]

I didn't know it was KKK, but "Keep [Nation] [Nation-y]" is like the number one slogan for extreme nationalists everywhere.

Yep.  The slogan is inherently xenophobic since it implies that your country is perfect and right and the problem is those foreign people corrupting it.  The fact that groups like the KKK and the BNP use similar slogans merely demonstrates that.

Made doubly amusing when you consider Team Romney had a donor party on a yacht registered in the Grand Caymans.

Maybe they need to amend the slogan to "Keep America America, oh and that really nice spot in the Caymans or maybe Zurich."

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You guys are all forgetting that the KKK hate Mormons such as Romney and would throw them out of the country if they had their way.

[Glowcat]

You guys are all forgetting that the KKK hate Mormons such as Romney and would throw them out of the country if they had their way.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to whether something gives racist or xenophobic vibes. He doesn't even need to be sympathetic to the KKK for the implications to remain.

[RedKing]

You guys are all forgetting that the KKK hate Mormons such as Romney and would throw them out of the country if they had their way.

YMMV on that point. There was a fascinating interview on NPR a few weeks back with a Jewish author who grew up in Tennessee in the 1930's. She mentioned that the local Klansmen were actually pretty friendly with her family, and would warn them to watch out for those damned Catholics.

Yes, it doesn't make much sense in a larger context, but in the context of that little area, Jews weren't seen as a problem because there were so few. Whereas up North, there's probably Catholic Klan members. I would not be at all shocked if there are Mormon Klan members in the Utah chapters.

EDIT: Actually, looking through some sources, it looks like when the Klan made a resurgence in the 1970s, MOST of the Utah chapter were Mormons. It didn't pan out so well in Utah, and most of those who were serious went up to Idaho to join the Aryan Nation.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You guys are all forgetting that the KKK hate Mormons such as Romney and would throw them out of the country if they had their way.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to whether something gives racist or xenophobic vibes. He doesn't even need to be sympathetic to the KKK for the implications to remain.

It's pretty decent proof that he wasn't knowingly copying them, as a lot of people insisted last time we talked about this topic.

Yes, it doesn't make much sense in a larger context, but in the context of that little area, Jews weren't seen as a problem because there were so few. Whereas up North, there's probably Catholic Klan members. I would not be at all shocked if there are Mormon Klan members in the Utah chapters.

Just because they hated the local Jews less than the local Catholics does not at all mean there could be Catholic Klansmen. There couldn't be Catholic Klansmen any more than there could be Jewish Klansmen or Mormon Klansmen. The KKK is a Protestant group, no exceptions accepted.

The Klan doesn't have sympathy for Mormons. They were one of the biggest forces advocating their persecution back in the days where they were important in US politics.

[sluissa]

I didn't know it was KKK, but "Keep [Nation] [Nation-y]" is like the number one slogan for extreme nationalists everywhere.

Yep.  The slogan is inherently xenophobic since it implies that your country is perfect and right and the problem is those foreign people corrupting it.  The fact that groups like the KKK and the BNP use similar slogans merely demonstrates that.

Made doubly amusing when you consider Team Romney had a donor party on a yacht registered in the Grand Caymans.

Maybe they need to amend the slogan to "Keep America America, oh and that really nice spot in the Caymans or maybe Zurich."

It's amusing... but honestly... EVERYONE, with the means do so, flags their ships in countries like that, no matter where they're from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience It's just simply what you do if you have a ship of a certain size... nearly a quarter of all ship tonnage is registered in Panama. Over 50% of all ship tonnage is registered in the top 11 countries, and the only major country on that list is France. It's BS, it's to get around regulations and taxes and everyone knows it... but everyone still does it, so I can't really blame him for being on a foreign flagged boat... Odds are if you've been on one that's larger than 100 tons and it's not military, you've been on a foreign flagged boat.

[RedKing]

Just because they hated the local Jews less than the local Catholics does not at all mean there could be Catholic Klansmen. There couldn't be Catholic Klansmen any more than there could be Jewish Klansmen or Mormon Klansmen. The KKK is a Protestant group, no exceptions accepted.

The Klan doesn't have sympathy for Mormons. They were one of the biggest forces advocating their persecution back in the days where they were important in US politics.

I know it doesn't make sense...I'm just saying. There HAVE been Catholic Klanners. And Mormon ones too, apparently. There's always been regional variation in what is considered "THOSE people". I bring up my family as a good example. My grandfather (in NC) would have been disowned for marrying a black woman, but any other ethnicity/religion was fine. My grandmother (in MT) would have been disowned for marrying a Mexican or Native American. African-Americans were so rare as to be an exotic curiosity.

There's sort of an upper and lower threshold on bigotry. If there's too few of group X around, it's hard to seriously make them out to be a threat. if there's too many, it becomes impossible to ascribe them all to the same stereotype because you're going to have to interact with them. You need enough of them that you see them in the community and can imagine them doing their <insert stereotype's threat here>, and few enough of them that you don't actually get to know any of them.

@sluissa: I know it's common practice. But when you're running on a somewhat nationalist patform, *and* you have an image problem as a tax-dodging, out-of-touch rich guy....partying on a yacht flying the Grand Caymans' jack is probably not a great idea, y'know? It's not even First-World Problems at that point, it's 1% Problems.

[Glowcat]

You guys are all forgetting that the KKK hate Mormons such as Romney and would throw them out of the country if they had their way.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to whether something gives racist or xenophobic vibes. He doesn't even need to be sympathetic to the KKK for the implications to remain.

It's pretty decent proof that he wasn't knowingly copying them, as a lot of people insisted last time we talked about this topic.

I'm not claiming Romney favors the KKK, so don't take what I'm about to say as that, but this is fallacious reasoning. Hategroups that don't like each other may still share common ground and there exists enough within the various christian denominations that doesn't necessarily preclude copying each other. Even if he knew of bad blood between mainstream KKK beliefs and his own, that doesn't preclude reaching out for support when they might be more concerned about them other non-white non-Christians to focus on their sectarian concerns. And considering that RedKing has brought up the existence of Mormon klanners I think your underlying assumption which paints a broad brush over what the KKK want or don't want is false.

[RedKing]

Yeah. I mean, it's a bit like assuming there couldn't possibly be anti-Israel Jews.

[mainiac]

It's amusing... but honestly... EVERYONE, with the means do so, flags their ships in countries like that, no matter where they're from.

The fact that everyone does it, if anything, just further highlights the way the rich play by a different set of rules then everyone else.