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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 764932 times)

darkrider2

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4440 on: August 09, 2012, 01:04:34 pm »

I have to wonder though, was Bain Capital founded on the principle of looking as much as possible like a liberal parody of a hedge fund?  I'm sure the vast majority of their business was completely legit, but the stuff that raises red flags is just so ridiculously red-flagy.

This prompted me to look for sources around the web to explain what private equity firms actually do, most of which are surprisingly vague and simple. I had heard about this on the tele a while back and it just about blew my mind but here are the basics.

- A private equity firm purchases a business, the business has to pay for part of its own purchase (since technically the private equity guys are performing a service for the business, this can be about %70 of the cost of purchase)
- The private equity firm seeks to raise profits anyway they can, you do this by increasing revenue or minimizing costs, and the biggest cost in almost any business is wage payment.
- So they fire a large number of people and thus improve profits. Sometimes they also cheapen material costs as well, usually generating a lower quality product from that business.
- The now much more profitable business is sold away, the private equity firm bought it for cheap and can now sell it for vastly more since it is more profitable and technically now has more value.

Many of the businesses in question are indebted to the private equity firm afterwards and go bankrupt or perform vastly below what they would have without the private equity firm.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Nadaka

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4441 on: August 09, 2012, 01:14:24 pm »

Yes, the purpose of a private equity firm like Baen Capital is capital murder. The murder of capital. It is a corporate serial killing feasting on the corpses of persons of corporate ethnicity. When will this senseless corp on corp violence end?
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4442 on: August 09, 2012, 01:42:44 pm »

If you think about it aren't they interrupting the capitalist circle of life? Failing firms are supposed to die so that their resources can be reclaimed by the Invisible Hand and they leave room for new firms to grow into.

Hedge fund managers work by basically ripping out the failing organs and replacing them with brutally efficient gears, leaving mechanized, profitable but soulless zombies in their place. (okay, so the metaphor got a little mangled...work with me here)
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4443 on: August 09, 2012, 01:50:13 pm »

So hedge funds are transbusinessist?
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Frumple

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4444 on: August 09, 2012, 02:02:23 pm »

I don't see them replacing the metaphorical limbs they rip off businesses with robot ones, so, no.

More like a parasite, really. One of those ones that induce temporary benefits (increased metabolism, reduced resource requirements, whatever) in exchange for causing the host to die shortly thereafter.
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EveryZig

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4445 on: August 09, 2012, 02:11:44 pm »

More like a parasite, really. One of those ones that induce temporary benefits (increased metabolism, reduced resource requirements, whatever) in exchange for causing the host to die shortly thereafter.
Drug dealers for businesses?
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Nadaka

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4446 on: August 09, 2012, 02:12:35 pm »

Yea, they effectively peddle "bath salts" for corporations, including the face eating.
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Drunken

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4447 on: August 10, 2012, 12:06:43 am »

Something that seems to be skipped over in many private equity discussions is the nature of business growth and development in general. A business grows like a plant from some sort of seed which can take decades. To take the analogy further, there are some cases where a tree is dying and in danger of falling on someone's house or the branches are threatening traffic. But the argument that private equity firms are doing a valuable service is misinformation. Their goal is to make profit, they don't generally make more money from companies that are failing and need to be dismantled, they may be more likely to get access, but if they are given access to a company that is getting by ok or that is simply having a bad year, they don't take the moral path and think about what is good for society in the long run. The best example is US industry in the rust belt. The factories and plants (hey analogy pun) that they dismantled and sold off there took decades to build up, they were supporting large parts of the local, state and national economy. They were built in part with public funds. Some of them may have been operating at a loss but that may have been temporary, economic slowdowns are common but not permanent. The idea of simply sacking hundreds of workers is bad for everyone. What those industries needed was to be modernised, which would have cost a lot of money in the short term, but resulted in long term benefits across the board after a decade or so. Even worse, they didn't just sack the workers, they sold off everything that wasn't nailed down, sometimes just for scrap. Destroying something that has that level of social investment over that length of time is unconscionable. Even in a working capitalistic system the companies that own them could go bankrupt, without the buildings and machinery needing to be melted down or left to rust. The doctor cutting off diseased limbs analogy is wrong, the correct version is doctors taking organs to sell on the black market. Some of them have a modicum of morality and only take them from dead people, some don't make that distinction. In terms of my plant analogy, it can be compared to bulldozing vast areas of rainforest so that they can sell the land to real estate speculators. This is short term greed and it is destructive. Given any failing company that still has valuable assets like skilled workers, machinery, land, infrastructure, there is always a way to make it successful again in the long term, and the gains from doing so are always worth it. There is no short term way to make money from this though. Private equity is nothing short of looting and pillaging, sanitised.
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alway

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4448 on: August 10, 2012, 01:04:48 pm »

Obama's lead widens to 7 points: http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/10/13217458-first-thoughts-its-not-an-even-race-obamas-ahead?lite

The article also seems to be suggesting Paul Ryan as a likely VP pick; and considering the popularity of 'The Ryan Plan...' Well, seems Obama will be getting a second term. :P
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4449 on: August 10, 2012, 01:27:49 pm »

Picking Ryan would be something of a peace offering to the Tea Party as well. If Romney picked a "safe" establishment candidate for VP, he could be facing a Tea Party-fueled revolt, maybe even a third-party spoiler candidacy. Which would be awesome.

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Urist_McDrowner

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4450 on: August 10, 2012, 08:02:45 pm »

No mention of Obama's horribly deceitful Joe Soptic ad? For shame.

Liberals, tell me how you support a man, who can blame another for the DEATH of a man's wife by cancer, on a horrid falsehood. Obama has not denounced this ad yet. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDzzv8Jn6GQ

It was false, all of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcOJkzUrnx0&feature=player_embedded

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Lord Shonus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4451 on: August 10, 2012, 08:12:26 pm »

That's a PAC ad, not one endorsed by Obama. This ad was produced by an organization nominally independent of Obama's campaign, which he is unlikely to exercise significant control over. On an election of this scale, it's not unknown for a candidate to never see some of the ads on his behalf, let alone control them.


Besides this, the ad (unlike Obama's abortion gaffe) wasn't completely false. There is room to suggest that the company folding was Romney's fault.
http://factcheck.org/2012/08/is-romney-to-blame-for-cancer-death/
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 08:14:18 pm by Lord Shonus »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4452 on: August 10, 2012, 08:13:08 pm »

It wasn't Obama's ad. It was anti-Romney, but Priorities USA is officially an independent expenditure SuperPAC. Independent expenditure PACs do not act with the consent of the individual they support.

Furthermore, I'd really have to question the statements made in a video by "Liberal-Fascism.com".
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Zangi

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4453 on: August 10, 2012, 08:15:19 pm »

Furthermore, Presidential candidates/campaigns cannot work with SuperPACs... by law or something.
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Urist_McDrowner

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #4454 on: August 10, 2012, 08:17:42 pm »

That's a PAC ad, not one endorsed by Obama. This ad was produced by an organization nominally independent of Obama's campaign, which he is unlikely to exercise significant control over. On an election of this scale, it's not unknown for a candidate to never see some of the ads on his behalf, let alone control them.


Besides this, the ad (unlike Obama's abortion gaffe) wasn't completely false. There is room to suggest that the company folding was Romney's fault.

The company was already folding. A healthy, profitable company isn't one you normally sell.

Bain (Romney was out of the picture at this point), OFFERED THE GUY A BUYOUT.
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