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[mainiac]

Are you unaware that there are like 20 organizations that publish exactly what you are talking about?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Arguing over word choice (of a very well made arguement otherwise) while the other candidate still tiptoes around his fraudulent finances and near-zero taxes?

I guess there's a bit of a gap in priority for some voters.

[Frumple]

Are you unaware that there are like 20 organizations that publish exactly what you are talking about?

For/from the major candidates?

Tangentally aware about stuff like that from other sources, though I haven't actually gotten around to looking for them. There's not enough give room for discourse in the area I'm in for me to be particularly vigorous regarding politics, bleh.

Still... suggestions? Resource like that sounds like something that might fit in the OP.

[The Mechanical Man]

Arguing over word choice (of a very well made arguement otherwise) while the other candidate still tiptoes around his fraudulent finances and near-zero taxes?

I guess there's a bit of a gap in priority for some voters.

I believe that to be a personal issue rather than a political one. Obama smoked pot when he was younger, but you don't seem to care about that. *shrugs*

I have a plethora of issues with both Obama and Romney, but I think both of them have some good ideas as well. Unfortunately, mixing ideas and making compromises seems to be impossible.

I guess the best way to put my current election view is this: I dislike both candidates, but I dislike Romney less. That's just how I feel about it.

[Descan]

There's a bit of a difference between smoking pot in the past, and currently having fraudulent finances, almost-no taxes, and refusing to publish your tax record, while you're trying to become the president of a nation that is in financial straits!

:I

[mainiac]

And frankly I say smoking the pot is a mark in Obama's favor.  More then half of 20-25 year olds will admit to having tried pot.  I'd much rather want someone like Obama in control of the justice department then someone who's been rich their whole life and has never feared the law.

[The Mechanical Man]

There's a bit of a difference between smoking pot in the past, and currently having fraudulent finances, almost-no taxes, and refusing to publish your tax record, while you're trying to become the president of a nation that is in financial straits!

This is true. But if he hasn't released his tax records, how do you know he pays almost no taxes? I would certainly like him to release his records but what he pays in taxes is not going to make or break the vote for me. The other issues will.

Oh and as far as tax rates goes, while I don't think it's fair that some of the wealthy do not pay as much in taxes, it isn't fair for them to pay more, either. I honestly never understand why a flat tax rate across all classes is considered a bad idea.

[Flare]

This is true. But if he hasn't released his tax records, how do you know he pays almost no taxes? I would certainly like him to release his records but what he pays in taxes is not going to make or break the vote for me. The other issues will.

Are you talking about Romney? Because I think he has published some of his tax returns. Little to no tax? Not exactly, but I think Descan's meaning there is that he pay very little tax compared with the rest of the population which to some people his tax rate seems to support that.

[mainiac]

Oh and as far as tax rates goes, while I don't think it's fair that some of the wealthy do not pay as much in taxes, it isn't fair for them to pay more, either. I honestly never understand why a flat tax rate across all classes is considered a bad idea.

Because it would be a humanitarian nightmare.  This isn't some philosophy class where we debate in abstract whether those with more have a greater responsibility on them.  This is the real world where the huge gains the rich have had over the past three decades have come at the cost of stagnating income for the middle and increasing poverty for the poor.

But the rich apparently aren't mere mortals like you and me.  That's why Romney needs to disclose less about his income history to run for president of the US then my girlfriend disclosed when she started renting an apartment.  Rules are for the little people.

This is true. But if he hasn't released his tax records, how do you know he pays almost no taxes? I would certainly like him to release his records but what he pays in taxes is not going to make or break the vote for me. The other issues will.

Are you talking about Romney? Because I think he has published some of his tax returns. Little to no tax? Not exactly, but I think Descan's meaning there is that he pay very little tax compared with the rest of the population which to some people his tax rate seems to support that.

He published two years.  As his father put it "One year could be a fluke, perhaps for show."  Two years is hardly better considering that the carryover from previous years (the ones he refuses to release) show things like large tax credit carryovers and a 401k storing amounts of tax free income that have experts scratching their head about the legality of.  He should release 12 years like his father did at least to show what his taxes looked like before he wanted to be president.

[Descan]

There's a bit of a difference between smoking pot in the past, and currently having fraudulent finances, almost-no taxes, and refusing to publish your tax record, while you're trying to become the president of a nation that is in financial straits!

This is true. But if he hasn't released his tax records, how do you know he pays almost no taxes? I would certainly like him to release his records but what he pays in taxes is not going to make or break the vote for me. The other issues will.

Oh and as far as tax rates goes, while I don't think it's fair that some of the wealthy do not pay as much in taxes, it isn't fair for them to pay more, either. I honestly never understand why a flat tax rate across all classes is considered a bad idea.

Because 10 percent to a poor person is having to choose between electricity and food, and 10 percent to a rich person is having to choose between a yacht or caviar.

A bit of an exaggeration, yes, but the principle is sound.

[kaijyuu]

Imagine two people:

One spends 95% of their income on necessities. Food, etc.
One spends 10% of their income on necessities.

A 5% tax on both inconveniences one, and completely removes any fungible income for the other. No entertainment, no investing to improve their situation, nothing. Just day-to-day necessities.

[The Mechanical Man]

Are you talking about Romney? Because I think he has published some of his tax returns. Little to no tax? Not exactly, but I think Descan's meaning there is that he pay very little tax compared with the rest of the population which to some people his tax rate seems to support that.

He has but not for the most recent year, I believe, which many people are still demanding as well as many years before.

And it was a low rate. And that is unfair. But this issue is not a priority for me. If he's breaking the law, then by all means get him out of the election. But otherwise it isn't important to me.

Because it would be a humanitarian nightmare.  This isn't some philosophy class where we debate in abstract whether those with more have a greater responsibility on them.  This is the real world where the huge gains the rich have had over the past three decades have come at the cost of stagnating income for the middle and increasing poverty for the poor.

But taxing the rich is not the best way to solve the problem. We should be fixing current problems and loopholes in the system rather than just raising taxes. And no matter what you do, there will always be a "1%". It's the result of a capitalistic system- there are going to be winners and there are going to be losers. Unfortunately it happens to be the best system we have right now. The focus should be on making the game fair to play and getting rid of the cheating.

[kaijyuu]

That's impossible simply because it IS a capitalistic system. There's no "fair" in capitalism. At all. A basic tenet of it is needing capital to make capital; in order to invest, you need money. So those with money already are going to make more money, and those without... aren't.

You wanna level the playing field? Support redistribution of wealth. Support things that burden the wealthy for the benefit of all. With great power comes great responsibility... so don't let those in power shirk it because they think they can ignore the little poor people below them.

[The Mechanical Man]

That's impossible simply because it IS a capitalistic system. There's no "fair" in capitalism. At all. A basic tenet of it is needing capital to make capital; in order to invest, you need money. So those with money already are going to make more money, and those without... aren't.

You wanna level the playing field? Support redistribution of wealth. Support things that burden the wealthy for the benefit of all. With great power comes great responsibility... so don't let those in power shirk it because they think they can ignore the little poor people below them.

If I don't have enough money to make money, I take out a loan. Then when I start making a profit, I can pay off the loan. Or I get a loan and invest in another business, and if that business does well then I have enough money to pay off my loan plus plenty extra. Fundamentally and philosophically this is the answer, but of course in real life it is another thing entirely. But this is because the current lending system is broken.

We have many broken systems. If they were fixed, redistribution of the wealth wouldn't be necessary.

[Blargityblarg]

We have many broken systems. If they were fixed, redistribution of the wealth wouldn't be necessary.

Because the systems, when working, redistribute the wealth by their very own selves.