Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 244 245 [246] 247 248 ... 714

Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 765194 times)

Bauglir

  • Bay Watcher
  • Let us make Good
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3675 on: May 31, 2012, 01:54:36 pm »

When it came to triangulating to the middle ground however they were spot on.
Are you, by any chance, aware of what the word "moderate" means?

As for Lincoln Chaffee, yes, what a great moderate.  What happened to him?  Oh well he left the party and endorsed Barack Obama for president.  How does this show that moderates still exist in the GOP?
It shows very little, as an isolated example.
Logged
In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

mainiac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Na vazeal kwah-kai
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3676 on: May 31, 2012, 02:02:37 pm »

But that's positioning not true ideology.  They position themselves as centrists no matter how far the center will move.  When the individual mandate was a republican idea they supported it as a centrist alternative to Clinton-care.  When it became Obama care suddenly they oppose it.

True moderates do exist in the democratic party.  You don't see them by looking at the party composition of the votes.  You see them in terms of what ideas of the opposition they are willing to adopt and what compromises they will accept.  And these aren't fringe members of the party, Obama, Pelosi and Reed are willing to give quite a lot in the name of compromise as you yourself were complaining just recently.

The republican party couldn't even find people to stand up to Beohner during the debt ceiling crises and say "it's wrong to hold the world economy hostage like this."  That's because true moderates are long since gone.

When it came to triangulating to the middle ground however they were spot on.
Are you, by any chance, aware of what the word "moderate" means?

As for Lincoln Chaffee, yes, what a great moderate.  What happened to him?  Oh well he left the party and endorsed Barack Obama for president.  How does this show that moderates still exist in the GOP?
It shows very little, as an isolated example.
'
If one person want's to kill 2 puppies and the other wants to kill 0 it isn't "moderate" to suggest killing 1.  My point is that they are positioning themselves to a moving ideological center not actual moderates.

You think Lincoln Chaffee is an isolated example?  Well exactly how many moderates republican senators are left?  When the last tree on the island get's cut down you don't call it an isolated example.
Logged
Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
--------------
[CAN_INTERNET]
[PREFSTRING:google]
"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

cameron

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3677 on: May 31, 2012, 02:17:26 pm »

Quote
My point is that they are positioning themselves to a moving ideological center not actual moderates.
an actual moderate of course will occupy a defined immobile position which has presumably stayed the same for centuries
Logged

Bauglir

  • Bay Watcher
  • Let us make Good
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3678 on: May 31, 2012, 02:19:20 pm »

If one person want's to kill 2 puppies and the other wants to kill 0 it isn't "moderate" to suggest killing 1.  My point is that they are positioning themselves to a moving ideological center not actual moderates.

You think Lincoln Chaffee is an isolated example?  Well exactly how many moderates republican senators are left?  When the last tree on the island get's cut down you don't call it an isolated example.
Yes, it is moderate. That's what moderate means. It's a position between two other positions. I'm not saying it's a good idea, or anything of that kind. I'm saying that the moderate position in the context of "Kill all of the puppies" and "Kill none of the puppies" is "Kill some of the puppies."

I don't actually know how many moderate republican senators are left. That's a failing of mine, I admit. It's also totally unrelated to my point about your use of poor rhetoric. Which I apologize for not being clear about.
Logged
In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

mainiac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Na vazeal kwah-kai
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3679 on: May 31, 2012, 02:31:15 pm »

My failed rhetoric?  I was just repeating the language that was already being used.  People said that we would see moderates get tired of the republican base and the party would split.  And I think here we see the disagreement.  I say moderates don't exist because I was talking about the mythical moderate republican who will stand up to the base once the base get's extreme enough.  You and RedKing were going by a definition of someone who is ideologically in the middle.

For the sake of what I was saying, that there would be no split in the GOP, I suggest you consider my statement using my definition.
Logged
Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
--------------
[CAN_INTERNET]
[PREFSTRING:google]
"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

RedKing

  • Bay Watcher
  • hoo hoo motherfucker
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3680 on: May 31, 2012, 02:58:46 pm »

I kind of feel like that's moving the goalposts, but I'm not gonna argue it. For my part, I don't see GOP moderates standing up to the base, I just think they leave. Either become Democrats, Libertarians, or become detached and disillusioned with politics in general (talking here mostly about the voters, not the pols). My father-in-law is very close to this point, as are a couple of Republican friends of mine. I know several others who have ditched their (R) voter registration and selected Independent instead.

So does it count as a party "split" if instead of two smaller parties, you end up with one smaller party and a bunch of people who just drop out entirely or are absorbed by existing entities?
Logged

Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

PTTG??

  • Bay Watcher
  • Kringrus! Babak crulurg tingra!
    • View Profile
    • http://www.nowherepublishing.com
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3681 on: May 31, 2012, 03:31:35 pm »

Where can we find a ruthlessly liberal candidate?

I imagine him speaking at the congress and getting inturrupted by a Georgia senator:

Senator: "Your policies are nothing more or less than COMMUNISM!"
Candidate: "Yes?"
Senator: "...Uh... and, and THAT'S BAD!"
Logged
A thousand million pool balls made from precious metals, covered in beef stock.

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3682 on: May 31, 2012, 03:33:25 pm »

I think the whole "Ruthlessly Progressive" thing is actually very relevant. For example, in US politics, portraying all of your goals as patriotic is something that generally only conservatives do. Yet, when I've done the same to liberal beliefs it seems to add a lot of weight in the minds of others. You just have to be clever about it, since liberal ideas involve change instead of status quo.

For example, portraying allowing same-sex marriage as a result of America's radical dedication to freedom has allowed me to sway people on it in the past. It's like the patriotism is a key thing for some people, and they'll listen to you more if they see your argument as having it.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

RedKing

  • Bay Watcher
  • hoo hoo motherfucker
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3683 on: May 31, 2012, 03:38:16 pm »

Sadly, the "When You Ride Alone, You Ride With Bin Laden" message didn't do much to convince Americans to support fuel-efficiency or carpooling.
Logged

Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

Mictlantecuhtli

  • Bay Watcher
  • Grinning God of Death
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3684 on: May 31, 2012, 03:40:11 pm »

Tag "-because this is AMERICA, fuck yeah!" Onto every argument and win the campaign.
Logged
I am surrounded by flesh and bone, I am a temple of living. Maybe I'll maybe my life away.

Santorum leaves a bad taste in my mouth,
Card-carrying Liberaltarian

Zrk2

  • Bay Watcher
  • Emperor of the Damned
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3685 on: May 31, 2012, 04:58:57 pm »

The two party system truly is the worst thing to ever happen to America.
Logged
He's just keeping up with the Cardassians.

Mr. Palau

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3686 on: May 31, 2012, 05:33:25 pm »

Sadly, the "When You Ride Alone, You Ride With Bin Laden" message didn't do much to convince Americans to support fuel-efficiency or carpooling.
Sounds better as "Ride Together, Save Together!" although that is more communitarian than patriotic. Maybe "Save Gas, Save the Nation".
Logged
you can't just go up to people and get laid.

Zrk2

  • Bay Watcher
  • Emperor of the Damned
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3687 on: May 31, 2012, 09:23:09 pm »

Carpool; spend more money on other shit you don't need!
Logged
He's just keeping up with the Cardassians.

inteuniso

  • Bay Watcher
  • Functionalized carbon is the source.
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3688 on: May 31, 2012, 10:15:56 pm »

The politicians themselves are starting to snap.

Not much longer until glorious revolution, comrades!
Logged
Lol scratch that I'm building a marijuana factory.

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3689 on: May 31, 2012, 10:18:13 pm »

To be fair, if I were an Illinois Republican I'd probably snap too.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.
Pages: 1 ... 244 245 [246] 247 248 ... 714