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[Bauglir]

Truth be told, I don't think there has been a President in history who wasn't far cleverer than average. Hell, Bush is probably more intelligent than most of this board's population, for all his reputation as a moron. Then again, that's not immediately obvious to voters.

[RedKing]

Truth be told, I don't think there has been a President in history who wasn't far cleverer than average. Hell, Bush is probably more intelligent than most of this board's population, for all his reputation as a moron. Then again, that's not immediately obvious to voters.

No. Just....no. Most Presidents? Yes. Bush? HELLS NO. (And I'd quibble on Pierce and Tyler, but meh.)

[Shinotsa]

Eh, I was going by undergraduate GPA (Since that's the most relevant to me, being an undergrad student) which was a 2.35 according to a quick google. Granted that was at Yale, but all presidential candidates have graduated from similar level schools. I'm not quite sure what Gore's GPA was like to be honest, but I recall hearing he has a very high IQ. I'd actually love to have all this checked seeing as how it's just what I heard when I was a kid; I hate realizing that I believe unsubstantiated facts overheard when I was a child.

[mainiac]

Well this is what his budget proposals say he will do in order to make the numbers add up.  If they seem impossible to you then I suggest you draw the natural conclusion from that.

That it's empty rhetoric?

Okay, so you are claiming that because he is a liar, we know nothing about him.  Therefore the only logical thing to conclude is that he and Obama are exactly the same... 

Yes, I suppose if you completely adopt existential angst, all politicians are the same.  But I'm gonna stick to actually trying to judge their proposals, thanks.

[GlyphGryph]

Except, you know, he's a politician, who held offices and who did things?

He has a track record, so I suggest that we actually look at a track record. When you're got two people with a history, looking at that history is usually (not always) a much better predictor of future behaviour than rhetoric during a national election.

Judging fucking "proposals" from people who aren't in office for a position where politicians are notorious for reversing their stances once they earn (Remember, "I'm gonna be a uniter, not a divider!", "Read my lips, no new taxes!" and so on) is worthless, especially when you're dealing with someone who isn't an unknown, who has an actual history.

A history that includes instituting government healthcare before it was cool, I might add.

George Bush had a solidly conservative record, and Al Gore the opposite. Romney's record, meanwhile, is distinctly moderate - and so far, so is Obama's.

Edit: They are not identical, no, but their actual actions have been the same in most of the ways I care about (not in a good way). The biggest difference is that Romney will both be more likely to get things done, and easier to be pressed into doing things to placate the party leadership. Which are not insignificant, no.

I also would have loved to have had Gore as president, which is why I cast my vote for him.

[mainiac]

Governor of Massachusetts is not the same thing as president of the US.  If he had tried an agenda like this, it never would have gotten through the state legislature.  But if he becomes president then he will almost certainly have a congress that would go with an agenda like this.

Furthermore presidential candidates have a tendency to follow through on their budget proposals.  Most of Obama's tax proposals actually have gone through.  In fact he even went further in increasing the progressivity of the system then he originally proposed by adding the temporary payroll tax cuts onto it.  Bush campaigned on what would become the Bush tax cuts.  Clinton campaigned on the balanced budgets that he stuck his neck out for in 1994.  The last president not to follow through on what he said was Bush senior and nobody wants to follow in his example.

[Mr. Palau]

Truth be told, I don't think there has been a President in history who wasn't far cleverer than average. Hell, Bush is probably more intelligent than most of this board's population, for all his reputation as a moron. Then again, that's not immediately obvious to voters.

No. Just....no. Most Presidents? Yes. Bush? HELLS NO. (And I'd quibble on Pierce and Tyler, but meh.)

Don't know about the other two guys but when it comes to bush, he just wasn't a good speaker. He was good one on one, or in other small groups, but when it came to giving big speaches, he sucks. Many people who have interveiwed both bush and clinton report bush is the smarter one, even though if you hear the two speak bush sounds much dumber.

I live in NY, so even though I would have voted for Gore, it would count for shit.

[RedKing]

Many people who have interveiwed both bush and clinton report bush is the smarter one, even though if you hear the two speak bush sounds much dumber.

Link or it didn't happen. I have *never* seen anyone say this. And I read a lot of political columns and interviews.

[mainiac]

Notably smart people over the age of 50 who have had plenty of outlets available to them tend to have some sort of notable achievement or two (if not many) that demonstrate their intelligence.

Can anybody think of any aspect of the younger Bush's biography that illustrates notable intelligence?

[RedKing]

Notably smart people over the age of 50 who have had plenty of outlets available to them tend to have some sort of notable achievement or two (if not many) that demonstrate their intelligence.

Can anybody think of any aspect of the younger Bush's biography that illustrates notable intelligence?

He had his daddy pull some strings to get him posted to the Rio Grande instead of Vietnam? Gotta admit, it was a smart move.

[GlyphGryph]

He convinced a lot of people that he would definitely be their best bet for president.

[SalmonGod]

Also, not to interrupt the progressive handwringing over the failure of Obama, but I have to say, I've seen this before. Where was it? Oh yeah...all those people saying "Al Gore and George Bush are two sides of the same coin. Doesn't matter which one you elect."

I have to say... I don't actually remember anybody saying this during the 2000 election.

Any politician that goes into a major depression after seeing just how easily the masses can be influenced to screw themselves is okay in my book. I miss Gore, and wish we could have a highly educated, progressive president. I guess people are just uncomfortable having their country run by a man that's most likely smarter than them.

But I do remember this.  Maybe this is just Indiana, but I remember people being made obviously uncomfortable by Gore for reasons that they could never clearly identify, while saying that they would vote for Bush 'because he seems like a guy you could hang out at a bar and have a drink with.'

(yaaay I finally caught up on this thread)

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, got to be honest, never really saw any real similarities between bush and gore. I heard people say the two /parties/ were the same (and while I think they are both bad, and have similarities, they also have colossal differences and different degrees of bad), but I don't recall anyone ever saying bush and gore were the same.

[Mego]

Also, not to interrupt the progressive handwringing over the failure of Obama, but I have to say, I've seen this before. Where was it? Oh yeah...all those people saying "Al Gore and George Bush are two sides of the same coin. Doesn't matter which one you elect."

But I do remember this.  Maybe this is just Indiana, but I remember people being made obviously uncomfortable by Gore for reasons that they could never clearly identify, while saying that they would vote for Bush 'because he seems like a guy you could hang out at a bar and have a drink with.'

I heard both of those things said here in Texas 12 years ago, and even now someone will inevitably say the former when comparing Bush and Gore. It's like Godwin's Law for political ignorance.

[mainiac]

I heard Bush and Gore are the same, not just before the election but for a couple of years afterwards.  I think people only stopped it when Bush started the push up for the Iraq war.