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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 763458 times)

scriver

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1770 on: February 10, 2012, 12:59:18 pm »

Japan, South Korea, the Scandinavian countries, ect. I can think of some more "diverse" nations not nearly so prosperous.

I'd like to point that even if you discount post-50's additions, Sweden has always been a multicultural country. Hell, the two most iconic "Swedish" things, Midsummer and Lucia, were imported.


Should'a stuck with the Yugoslavia example.

It wouldn't have done you any good, seeming as Yugoslavia was basically an example in taking several different cultural and religious groups and forcing them in under one label and cultural nation while completely ignoring what made them different ("Be one with the whole or fuck off!"), and that's why it eventually exploded and why people who had lived relatively peacefully as neighbours and friends for centuries suddenly started hating and killing each other.
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1771 on: February 10, 2012, 02:04:39 pm »

Interesting historical sidenote: Yugoslavia had the second highest standard of living inside the Soviet block.
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Wayward Device

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1772 on: February 10, 2012, 03:13:41 pm »

Fun Fact: What Montague is referring to as "European Style Multiculturalism" (Immigrant keeps their culture intac and form communities) is know in Belgium/France as "Anglo Saxon Multiculturalism".:p

Whenever I see French politicians complaining about something the UK has done (which is quite often, recently) they have a way of saying "Anglo Saxon" (Anglo Saxon Financial models/practices/banks is also very common) that sounds as if they are trying to say "You Fucking English Bastards". The malice is quite palpable.     
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or maybe Valve goes out of business because they invested too heavily in something which then fails - like, say, human civilization.
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Luke_Prowler

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1773 on: February 10, 2012, 03:15:50 pm »

I do not that some kindergarden teachers have been trying to teach that blue is not the only favorite color allowed for boys and pink is not the only favorite color allowed for girls and you shouldn't make fun of someone for liking a different color.

But that is as close as I can possibly come to the anecdote that Luke Prowler brought up.
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Sirus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1774 on: February 10, 2012, 03:22:54 pm »

I wonder if it's because European countries have fought each other off and on for hundreds of years, and now they have to get along as much as possible. 150-200 years ago, France and England might have gone to war over such remarks.
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Nadaka

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1775 on: February 10, 2012, 03:49:32 pm »

I do not that some kindergarden teachers have been trying to teach that blue is not the only favorite color allowed for boys and pink is not the only favorite color allowed for girls and you shouldn't make fun of someone for liking a different color.

But that is as close as I can possibly come to the anecdote that Luke Prowler brought up.
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Luke_Prowler

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1776 on: February 10, 2012, 04:17:17 pm »

I actually get confused with other people more often than you'd think, so it's fine.

I personally don't care what color of paper people choose, so long as it's by their own choice and not what someone else told them
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Heron TSG

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1777 on: February 10, 2012, 09:35:11 pm »

Analysis of the Santorum Anomaly: It was a week day, which means a work day for most people. Who shows up to caucuses instead of working? Diehard, opinionated voters. (Tea Party.) Enter Santorum voters.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1778 on: February 10, 2012, 09:38:12 pm »

Interesting historical sidenote: Yugoslavia had the second highest standard of living inside the Soviet block.

It wasn't within the Soviet Bloc.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1779 on: February 10, 2012, 09:40:54 pm »

Interesting historical sidenote: Yugoslavia had the second highest standard of living inside the Soviet block.

It wasn't within the Soviet Bloc.
It was until the end of WWII.
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sneakey pete

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1780 on: February 11, 2012, 03:59:52 am »

Err, it was occupied by the axis until the end of WW2, until which it was associated with the USSR until 1948.

But really that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the American election.
So i have to ask, if the republican candidates really want a smaller government, why don't they start by getting rid of the ridiculously long primary selection process? (or reforming it at least. I can actually see why it is probably the way it is, before areoplanes for example.)
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Heron TSG

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1781 on: February 11, 2012, 08:18:11 am »

Well, that's not the government. That's the Republican Party at work there.
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Montague

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1782 on: February 11, 2012, 11:14:28 am »

Err, it was occupied by the axis until the end of WW2, until which it was associated with the USSR until 1948.

But really that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the American election.
So i have to ask, if the republican candidates really want a smaller government, why don't they start by getting rid of the ridiculously long primary selection process? (or reforming it at least. I can actually see why it is probably the way it is, before areoplanes for example.)

Yeah, primaries are bylaws of a political party, it isn't run by or controlled by the government. It's just how the political party determine who it's going to have run for the real elections. It's why primary voters have to be party members, registered Republicans. If it was run by the government everyone could vote and that'd be hilarious.

Also, Yugoslavia was never even part of the Warsaw Pact, it divorced itself from the Soviet Union and it's allies in 1948. It's independant stance probably helps explain why it did a bit better then other socialist countries at the time.
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Sheb

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1783 on: February 11, 2012, 12:22:29 pm »

Well, aren't primary regulated by state laws? And aren't a lot of them "open"?
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1784 on: February 11, 2012, 12:26:52 pm »

Err, it was occupied by the axis until the end of WW2, until which it was associated with the USSR until 1948.

But really that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the American election.
So i have to ask, if the republican candidates really want a smaller government, why don't they start by getting rid of the ridiculously long primary selection process? (or reforming it at least. I can actually see why it is probably the way it is, before areoplanes for example.)

Yeah, primaries are bylaws of a political party, it isn't run by or controlled by the government. It's just how the political party determine who it's going to have run for the real elections. It's why primary voters have to be party members, registered Republicans. If it was run by the government everyone could vote and that'd be hilarious.
Not true in about half the country, hence the terms "open primary" and "closed primary". There are at least 14 states with fully open Presidential primaries and 11 with semi-open primaries (unaffiliated/independents can vote in either race). It turns out not to be such a clusterfuck after all, because the number of people willing to take time out to go trollvote in the other party's primary is actually quite small. Hell, you can't get most people to show up for their OWN party's primary. Additionally, "spoiler" votes rarely ever constitute a large enough portion to change the outcome of a race. This may actually become less true in proportional races, as one or two percentage points may mean a difference of a few delegates. But in the overall scheme of things, a handful of delegates is not going to mean much if the ACTUAL party members aren't interested in the candidate.



Also, while the primaries aren't run by the Federal government they do in fact cost a non-trivial amount of public money to stage, paid either by the state or local governments. Those voting booths don't appear out of thin air. That absolutely pointless Missouri "beauty pageant"? Estimated to cost $6-7 million of taxpayer dollars.




While we're on that topic, the National Association of Secretaries of State has been working on a proposal to do a rotating primary pool to take some of the haphazardness out of the whole thing. They'd leave Iowa and New Hampshire untouched, but everybody else would go into one of four regional, 12-state pools based on geographic location. The primaries would be held on the first Tuesday of each month (March, April, May, June). And then each region would go on the same day. So if they had used this plan this year, for example, it would have been:

Iowa: the usual date
New Hampshire: the usual date

And let's say for argument that the rotation order is East, South, North, West (they'd actually do a lottery draw the first year to determine it).

So first Tuesday in March, all the East states vote.
First Tuesday in April, all the South states vote.
First Tuesday in May, all the North states vote.
First Tuesday in June, all the West states vote.

This still allows candidates time to focus their efforts in a relatively narrow area (a month per region), but takes a lot of the time and confusion out of things, and actually lessens the workload on candidates as they don't have to jump back and forth across the country. You don't have to choose "am I going to camp out in Arizona or Michigan?" as Santorum is currently doing.

The next election cycle, The East states would move to the back of the line and all the other regions would move up a month.

It's an interesting plan, and I like it. I doubt it'll actually ever go anywhere, because there's an entire industry of pundits and campaign strategists built upon the arcane wackiness of the American primary system. But it's still a good idea. Instead of the weird piecemeal horse race, you'd essentially have four "Super Tuesdays". And this way, no state gets chronically ignored (like North Carolina, which is damn near last in the country).
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 12:28:49 pm by RedKing »
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