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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 752632 times)

nenjin

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1485 on: February 02, 2012, 08:18:53 pm »

Pretty much. The content of his older political beliefs is bad enough, but his attempt to dance around them has been pretty embarrassing. You don't just wave off stuff like that with a "it was a long time ago, I don't really remember" or its equivalent. It's sad but I think he might have done better in the polls if he'd come out and defended his views, rather than retreating from them. Because at this point he doesn't have the support of the moderates because of those statements, and he probably lost a few of the kooks votes because he didn't reply "Hell yeah I said that!"

Considering Paul has been elected multiple times based on those views....that's probably got to have pissed off some of his long-time supporters (who read what Paul had to say before he was a presidential candidate.)
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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1486 on: February 02, 2012, 09:08:37 pm »

Ron Paul strikes me as an American Nick Griffin, the head of the British National Party. As the country descends into shit, his ideas become more and more appealing, as it becomes clear that something radical has to be done to get the country back on track. His supporters were originally a hard-core of racists and nutjobs, but have gradually expanded to include otherwise fairly rational people who just desire change at any cost more than anything else. He was once considered a fringe lunatic, but eventually expanded his power-base to the point that he could be considered a real contender. The previous paragraph could apply to either Nick or Ron.

But eventually the bubble has to burst. The more exposure Ron Paul gets, the more his views are going to come under scrutiny. For Nick Griffin the bubble burst when he had finally gained enough support to be considered politically important enough to appear on "Question Time". At this point the whole country got to see first-hand what his views and policies actually were. There are clips on youtube, but suffice to say he made an arse of himself and the BNP more-or-less fell back into obscurity.

That said, Nick could probably do well as a Republican...
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1487 on: February 02, 2012, 09:17:52 pm »

Ahh, the BNP.

Sooner or later, I hope, the bubbling tension is going to get a left-winger as a serious contender, hopefully for president (but probably not).
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Leafsnail

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1488 on: February 02, 2012, 09:32:17 pm »

I don't think Nick Griffin would do well at all as a Republican candidate really, even if you shifted his viewpoint enough.  He's just too goddamn incompetant to lead anything but a bankrupt fringe party.  I mean, have any of the Republicans managed to get into fistfights with their potential voters while on the campaign trail (initiating the violence, no less)?
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1489 on: February 02, 2012, 10:02:06 pm »

The two party system is hardly a creation of the cold war...

I would just like to take a moment to say that I was trying to be sarcastic in this previous post and apologize to anyone I might have offended since it appears I missed the mark.
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jester

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1490 on: February 02, 2012, 10:05:45 pm »

Some sort of sarcasm font or the like would probably cut down on the hate (ok, maybe diethate) on this thread by about %75
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Sirus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1491 on: February 02, 2012, 10:07:38 pm »

What about adding the  ;D emoticon to all sarcasm? That might help, though it might also defeat the purpose of sarcasm...
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Flying Dice

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1492 on: February 02, 2012, 10:09:48 pm »

But if someone doesn't catch sarcasm, isn't that in and of itself a resounding success?
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Frumple

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1493 on: February 02, 2012, 10:10:07 pm »

Some sort of sarcasm font or the like would probably cut down on the hate (ok, maybe diethate) on this thread by about %75
Perhaps impact? Oh gods, no. Not impact. Courier? *previews* That's... not as bad. I like the name of georgia, at least, and that's fairly readable. Perhaps Aqi would like to dictate an official sarcasm font for the thread? I'll just go ahead and nominate georgia.
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trees

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1494 on: February 02, 2012, 10:13:47 pm »

Perhaps the "irony mark"
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1495 on: February 02, 2012, 10:15:05 pm »

But if someone doesn't catch sarcasm, isn't that in and of itself a resounding success?

No?  Are you being sarcastic?
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Sirus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1496 on: February 02, 2012, 10:19:44 pm »

Of course he isn't being sarcastic. Clearly he is mis-informed about the purpose of it all.  ;D

Like this?
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nenjin

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1497 on: February 02, 2012, 10:22:28 pm »

Whatever happened to good, ol' fashioned /sarcasm tags?

Too sarcastic?
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GreatJustice

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1498 on: February 03, 2012, 12:14:27 am »

Ron Paul strikes me as an American Nick Griffin, the head of the British National Party. As the country descends into shit, his ideas become more and more appealing, as it becomes clear that something radical has to be done to get the country back on track. His supporters were originally a hard-core of racists and nutjobs, but have gradually expanded to include otherwise fairly rational people who just desire change at any cost more than anything else. He was once considered a fringe lunatic, but eventually expanded his power-base to the point that he could be considered a real contender. The previous paragraph could apply to either Nick or Ron.

But eventually the bubble has to burst. The more exposure Ron Paul gets, the more his views are going to come under scrutiny. For Nick Griffin the bubble burst when he had finally gained enough support to be considered politically important enough to appear on "Question Time". At this point the whole country got to see first-hand what his views and policies actually were. There are clips on youtube, but suffice to say he made an arse of himself and the BNP more-or-less fell back into obscurity.

That said, Nick could probably do well as a Republican...

Nick Griffin is only on the right socially, a bit like Le Pen in France. He's very much a lefty on economic issues, and seeing as how Ron Paul is 30% economic issues and 50% foreign policy/war issues, he would fit Paul's views rather poorly even were Paul a crazed supremacist. He'd be run out of the Republican party if the topic of discussion ever went near economic policy, actually.

Paul would, in British terms at least, be more likely to fit in with either the Liberals (the Orange wing at least, though he wouldn't be pro-Euro so not entirely), the Tories (though depending on what issue is at hand at the time, though Daniel Hannan is a good example of Ron Paul's ideas in Britain), or the UKIP (with the non-interventionist/isolationist/what-have-you undertones).

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Of course, by this point the analogy starts to look kinda silly, but whatever.

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You don't need those letters to call Ron Paul a homophobe. There's plenty of other sources for that, at least!

Way to change the subject there, bro

He's a homophobe in the sense that he personally dislikes it. Sad to say it, but it's true. On the other hand, every single other Republican running dislikes homosexuals even more (GAYS IN THE MILITARY anyone?), and unlike Paul, are entirely willing to use the government to screw around with them. While disliking them (and considering the fact that he's a good 73 years old, its hardly much worse than most grandparents), his live and let live philosophy would mean that he would absolutely protect their rights.
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It's bad enough management that it still reflects very poorly on his character and ability to... well, manage anything. Qualities a president should have.

He was retired from politics, and at the time it looked like he was going to spend the rest of his life as a doctor before retiring. Then stuff happened and he changed his mind, returning to Congress to rant about an incoming housing bubble (ho ho!), the war in Iraq being an insane endeavor without any potential gain (What a nutty idea!), and that maybe bombing and killing people in their countries isn't a good way to fight terrorism (Insane, I tell you!).

Considering the circumstances, it still leaves him leaps and bounds above literally every single alternative.

----

I'm sad to say, though, that even were the bulk of the bad things said about him actually true (being a racist, etc), he'd still easily be the best of the pack. So long as he didn't let them affect his policy (him being an actual crook or not holding to his values would be a whole different ballgame, but I have yet to see anyone claim THAT so far), it would be outweighed by the end of stupid American foreign interventions, the extension of American hegemony to the rest of the world, less blustering and threatening, more negotiating, and an economic policy not purely directed by massive banks to boot. Hell, just pulling out of those bases would make it worth it. Mind, I'm not American so my priorities are a bit different, but he would still be far ahead of the alternatives.

With the Republicans, Mitt Romney is for sale to the highest bidder, lacks any strong moral fibre, and would bend over to whatever major interests wanted to control him. He'd probably lose to Obama unless the worst circumstances happened though, since I can't see Mitt freaking Romney getting out dedicated voters the way literally any other Republican could.

Newt Gingrich is also for sale to the highest bidder, but dresses it up in populist rhetoric and is personally a scumbag where Mitt is plastic. Not much different than Mitt except he'd probably lose by even larger margins.

Santorum, well, he's a bible thumping, war-mongering nut who hates the internet. He's authentic, but absolutely nuts in every sense.

Obama is ALREADY owned, specifically by Goldman Sachs and co. He's no communist, just a fascist in vaguely socialist clothing.
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G-Flex

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #1499 on: February 03, 2012, 12:25:14 am »

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You don't need those letters to call Ron Paul a homophobe. There's plenty of other sources for that, at least!

Way to change the subject there, bro

It wasn't changing the subject. One of the issues with those newsletters was homophobic content. From other sources, at other times, Ron Paul has expressed discomfort at using a gay supporter's bathroom, and has also called HIV patients "victims of their own lifestyles".

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He's a homophobe in the sense that he personally dislikes it.

He's also a homophobe in the sense that he's written legislation that specifically singles out sexual activity and same-sex unions as something the supreme court shouldn't be able to rule over.

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On the other hand, every single other Republican running dislikes homosexuals even more (GAYS IN THE MILITARY anyone?), and unlike Paul, are entirely willing to use the government to screw around with them.

Paul has tried to use the government, and his own legislation, to effectively make state anti-sodomy laws legal again. You tell me who's more homophobic there.

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his live and let live philosophy would mean that he would absolutely protect their rights.

See above. He's written legislation aimed at shooting down the only way their rights can be protected, and have been protected. Do you know how many state anti-sodomy/homosexuality laws the "We the People Act" would make enforceable again? Far, far too many.

You think that Ron Paul has a "live and let live" philosophy. He doesn't. His own legislation makes it clear that his agenda is to let your state control your life rather than the federal government doing it. This isn't even some hypothetical tin-foil-hat bullshit: He has literally written regulation that would explicitly prevent the SCOTUS from ruling on state laws regarding issues that are basically a very specific laundry list of socially conservative hot-button topics (establishment of religion, same-sex marriage, sexual practices, and abortion). These state laws do exist, have for some time, and the only reason they aren't enforceable is because the SCOTUS has ruled that they are unconstitutional. This is not "live and let live", it's pretending that the rights of states supersede the rights of human beings, regarding a suspiciously explicit list of issues he doesn't want the SCOTUS saying bugger-all about.
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